r/worldnews 7d ago

Man kills several people in Norway in bow and arrow attacks, police say

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/man-kills-several-people-norway-bow-arrow-attacks-police-say-2021-10-13/
62k Upvotes

4k

u/smotheredtodeath 7d ago edited 7d ago

What we know from official sources (Police):

At 18:13 police recieved information that one individual (man) was shooting at people with a bow and arrow. At 18:47 the individiual was apprehended. Everything indicates that the man acted alone. The individual has not been questioned so no indications as to motivations. At this point what/how/why is still in the dark. Police say the only info they can give is that the apprehended individual is a man and in police control, although NRK has previously stated that the man is in his fifites.

Several people have been killed, and several wounded. There is currently a large area being locked down by police as the actions has been carried out over a large, yet undecided, area, so that the police can secure evidence.

The police can not confirm if the individual is previously known to the police, and he has not been appointed a lawyer.

The initial attack was carried out in a groceries store in which the suspect escaped with police chasing him from the scene. There was a confrontation between the individual and the police before he was apprehended, the official statement is that no police officers were injured in the apprehention, but the spokesperson will not confirm / deny that a police officer has been shot in the back during the apprehention of the suspect. Neither will they confirm / deny that shots have been fired by police. However they confirm that the suspect is in police custody, not in healthcare custody - indicating that the suspect is not injured.

Police will not confirm the concrete numbers of injured / deceased at this time.

Apologies if there is anything unclear here, as this is a live translation from the last press conference from the police spokesperson.

Edit: Press Conference from the prime minister and the minister of justice:at 10:48pm - No new information other than confirming that the police all over Norway has been given temporary arming until the situation is settled. Prime minister once again underlines that we do not know the reasoning for the attack but specifies that they can not confirm deny that this could be an act of terror, but that its a natural question to ask in these circumstances. They once again confirm that there are several killed and severaled injured from the situation.As there is a transfer of government tomorrow, the prime minster and her staff has been keeping the new government updated on the situation.

Extra Information: The recent election resulted in a change of government which is planned to go through tomorrow, so the current prime minister (Erna Solberg) and the minister of justice (Monica Mæland) - Informs that any future dealing from the governing body will come from the new government - Jonas Gahr Støre ( PM ) and XXX( unconfirmed leaks of new MOJ).

Edit2: 11:03PM The police confirms that the suspect is still not questioned, hence motivation can not be confirmed at this point. The police informs that several crime scenes will be investigated during the night.

11:04PM New press conference confirmed in 10 minutes, will update back.

Edit3: Confirmations that atleast 5 people are killed in the attacks.

Edit4: 11:15PM Inital information is that security during transfer of power tomorrow will be extraordinarily enforced, where it is usually relaxed with norwegian press.

Edit5: 11:17PM Police confirms that there are 5 killed individuals and 2 injured. 1 of the injured is an off duty police man - The situation from the start of the attack to the end still appear chaotic without a clear idea of how th events transpired. The police did fire warning -shots during the arrest. The local police has just recieved reinforcements from national police forces (kripos), and is looking forward to being helped by people with this special compentence.Questions regardin how exactly the situation was handled is and over what area is not being given a clear answer at this point. The police will not confirm / deny that the suspect is a native of the area neither what weapons the individual used.The police firing warning shots should speak for itself regarding the situation but the police will not confirm anything regardring this at this point.At this point the police has blocked of a large area and does not expect the habitants in the affected area to be able to move back home tonight.The police will not confirm anything regarding the suspect other than that he his a male.

The local police confirms that it is now helped by the (PST) Police security Service, but can still not confirm anything else than that the suspect is male, and that PST will investigate. They cannot confirm or give any information regarding the casualties - But admit that the larger part is from the local area. We have no information regarding the age, sex, or nationalty of the victims.

11:40PM No new information is expected tonight - What is being discussed is the involvement of PST and at what point they took over ( PST taking over is very important to how the case is being handled regarding terrorism / or the alternative). - and that the suspect might have used a crossbow.

11:47PM As there is no new news expected today I will be logging off. Send me a PM if you have any questions or need a source for anything specific.

802

u/Taxs1 7d ago

Awesome effort with this comment, quite helpful.

→ More replies
→ More replies

6k

u/Lexinoz 7d ago

CURRENTLY CONFIRMED INFORMATION:

Bow and arrow, not crossbow.

Started in a local shop. 4 confirmed dead. 1 Man arrested. "several" wounded.

Norwegian police temporarily armed. No current active search for more assailants.

Police confronted assailant. He escaped for a period. Now arrested.

Unsure if terror event or what the arrested's motivations were.

50

u/Zarhadom 7d ago

5 confirmed dead, Perpetrator is a danish citizen aged 37. He might be interogated tonight or tomorrow. Still no motive is known

The police gave this info to prevent rumors.

→ More replies

9k

u/xxkoloblicinxx 7d ago edited 6d ago

I know this is serious but as an American I love the phrase "Police temporarily armed."

edit: To be clear this isn't sarcasm. I legitimately wish cops in the US weren't always armed to the teeth. The fact Norwegian cops normally keep their guns in their cars rather than on their persons seems like an excellent compromise between safety and encouraging cops not to escalate a situation.

3k

u/ItalicsWhore 7d ago

I actually chuckled at that part too. In Los Angeles it would be “police temporarily un-armed when gun forgotten in front seat of car.”

2k

u/bravestar3030 7d ago

more like: "police temporarily upgraded to military grade equipment and weapons"

1k

u/PricklyPossum21 7d ago edited 7d ago

"Police given bazooka to deal with harmless guy on shrooms. Suspect neutralised. Collateral deaths included 8 black people and a family dog."

1k

u/bravestar3030 7d ago

"The department has issued a public apology for killing the dog"

161

u/spider1178 7d ago edited 6d ago

Bazooka wielding officer given a paid vacation while the department investigated itself and found itself innocent.

edit:. Thanks for the award, stranger.

→ More replies

108

u/GoblinWolf 7d ago

Apology?

58

u/AbleTom408 7d ago

Correction: they apologized to fellow officers for not killing the other dog as well.

11

u/usedtobejuandeag 7d ago

They revised their initial apology to the public after learning the dog they had killed belonged to one of the collateral black persons.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

103

u/zanylife 7d ago

Also that 5 people dead = worst death toll in 10 years.

→ More replies
→ More replies

2k

u/[deleted] 7d ago

[removed]

269

u/Active-Policy 7d ago

Actually genuinely curious how it works. Do they need to check out a weapon before leaving the precinct? Or is one locked in the car that needs to be noted each time removed?

531

u/newschool_ 7d ago

Or is one locked in the car that needs to be noted each time removed?

Usually this.

233

u/7umor 7d ago

This actually sounds like an amazing idea. Only pulled if truly needed. Only downside is not readily available if suspect unexpectedly has a weapon or gun but that might be also an american thing

51

u/Sarcastinator 7d ago

In 2020 there were a total of 2 people murdered with a gun i Norway which was 7% of all homocides that year. The police also shot and killed two people in 2020.

→ More replies

146

u/newschool_ 7d ago

In general it works great, but as for today we don't know exactly what happened yet, or if the first patrol (that failed to arrest the suspect) were armed or not.

But it is known that when they actually arrested him, they fired warning shots only, which is according to protocol, next step is firing at the legs, before ultimately shooting center mass.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

59

u/bcd_is_me 7d ago

Some police cars have weapons locked down in the car and I'm sure there's paperwork involved afterwards if they're ever brought out for use.

28

u/rauhaal 7d ago

The latter. But when "temporarily armed" they carry a pistol in their hip holster.

→ More replies

20

u/DeepPersonality1 7d ago

Locked in the car. There is also a part of the Police force that are allowed to be armed in general I think, but they are only active in situations like these.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

1k

u/Crnobog00 7d ago

Police now confirm that five people are dead and two injured. One of the injured is a police officer.

569

u/simen5523 7d ago edited 7d ago

Just to add, off duty police officer. Poor guy was in the store buying food.

He and the other wounded person are in intensive care at a hospital.

91

u/Crnobog00 7d ago

Yes, good clarification. The first statement I saw did not explicitly say this so I chose to not add any speculations of my own in my first post.

→ More replies
→ More replies

4k

u/_Ardhan_ 7d ago edited 6d ago

Holy crap. I'm Norwegian and my father is one of the "leading figures" in Norwegian archery and also lives not too far away from this. He probably knows this maniac.

I've gotten several calls and messages from people worried my dad knows the attacker, or asking (half-jokingly) if it's my dad, but thankfully he's safe and sound at home and currently not a murderous maniac. I hope this isn't one of his friends.

EDIT: my dad doesn't know him.

1k

u/Startled_Pancakes 7d ago edited 6d ago

It has to be pretty difficult to kill 5 people with a bow I have to imagine. This guy must have been a very experienced archer.

. .

EDIT: To all the badasses in the comments. Stop telling me how you learned how to hit a stationary target at close range under zero time pressure.

847

u/Lancashire_Toreador 7d ago edited 7d ago

If you want to use a powerful traditional bow, yeah. The actual fundamentals of archery required to put an arrow into a human size target from relatively close range? Not as hard as we most people think it is

309

u/atlantis911 7d ago

Yup, I lead group archery classes at a summer camp with 0 experience…

193

u/craftkiller 7d ago

Well the good news is that's only true on your first day

71

u/Cthulhus_Trilby 7d ago

When they send you to the cellar to kill rats and you get 5xp and a healing potion.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

129

u/Aringhet 7d ago

Seriously, an arrow shot from a compound bow will go straight through a human 90% of the time at <10m. Close up it is not particularly hard to hit either its pretty easy to see how he could kill this many people with just a bow.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

6k

u/stovsuger69 7d ago edited 7d ago

The police officer said that they caught him over 30 minutes after the first phone call to the authorities. First call came around 18:13 and he was caught around 18:47. What an absolute cunt.

And before you wonder how someone can kill so many with a bow and arrow: people hunt moose and elk with bows and arrows and one accurate shot can fell one. Imagine how fragile a human is compared to them.

Edit: Press event:

  • no interrogation yet
  • no accurate number of deceased or injured right now
  • only thing confirmed by police about suspect is that he is a man

3k

u/Crazyfinley1984 7d ago

Watched an arrow go clean through a black bear once. Bows are no joke.

934

u/stovsuger69 7d ago

They are very deadly and were a weapon to fear before and after gunpowder.

→ More replies

1k

u/Swak_Error 7d ago

Without exaggeration at about 30 feet (roughly 9 meters) I've shot a large Buck directly behind the front leg and the arrow went straight through them. I recovered it and kept it. Modern compound bows are fucking devastating

919

u/J_edrington 7d ago

I've heard some broadheads can push right through bulletproof Kevlar armor if there's no solid plates behind it. Something to do with how razor blades cut the fiber instead of trying to push through like a bullet.

819

u/juanjux 7d ago

Yep. Kevlar armor is designed for bullets, not broadheads. They also have much better penetration underwater.

473

u/legendhairymonkey 7d ago

Yup, “bullet proof” soft Kevlar and stab vests are two very different things for that reason.

60

u/RayLikeSunshine 7d ago

Geez, now I gotta wear both? Come on guys, I’m already fat!

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

85

u/[deleted] 7d ago edited 7d ago

[removed]

45

u/7tresvere 7d ago

I've seen videos on YouTube of longbows penetrating plate armor. Now it's modern plate armor so it maybe some cheap shit they got for the video, but still.

Also of one piercing through a wooden shield and hitting a piece of ham behind it.

25

u/beenoc 7d ago

Tod's Workshop (a company that does authentic medieval weapons for recreations and reenactments and stuff, even worked with the British Museum) tested a early 1400s recreation longbow and arrows versus contemporary French plate armor, to recreate Agincourt conditions. The longbow didn't come close to going through the front, though it did dent it and it's possible it could have gone through the sides (they were going to do some more videos testing that, but COVID got in the way.)

→ More replies
→ More replies

70

u/Golden-Fox 7d ago

A 141 lb draw is a heck of a draw weight though. A more typical compound bow might be around 70 lbs at the high end. This is like using a .50 BMG to test if your armor is bullet proof.

19

u/svenhoek86 7d ago

Well how else am I supposed to find out if the tank I'm buying is properly armored? An AK isn't going to cut it for a demo.

→ More replies

18

u/jhnhines 7d ago edited 7d ago

I used to shoot bows with a guy who was a major surgeon at a hospital and shot recurve bows with 90lb draw using a compound bow trigger. He couldn't draw the bow with his fingers because he couldn't risk the string lessening his sense of touch so the trigger allowed him to shoot insane weights with a recurve. Watching him shoot was like watching a missile go off.

→ More replies

14

u/camelCasing 7d ago

the heavy duty bow with a 141 lb draw WAS CAPABLE OF DENTING HARD ARMOR

Small correction: The heavy bow is a 70lb draw, the other one is 14 not 141. Somewhat important distinction since 70lb draw is pretty common but 141 would be abnormally heavy.

(replying to you because the original comment was deleted, sorry)

→ More replies
→ More replies

13

u/skeuser 7d ago

Something to do with how razor blades cut the fiber

You're exactly right.

59

u/Megatron_McLargeHuge 7d ago

Soft armor doesn't work well against steel core bullets either, it's designed for lead. Any pointed arrow should defeat it.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

527

u/NotMCherry 7d ago

And with bow and arrows there is no gunshot sounds to alert police of their location

→ More replies

272

u/Carninator 7d ago

Plus there's apparently several crime scenes, so it's unlikely all the victims were in the same place.

102

u/Lexinoz 7d ago

Yes, he moved around in a large area. Police are currently looking at all the locations to gather information.

→ More replies

161

u/mbattagl 7d ago

I'm surprised the attacker was captured so quickly. You'd think if his weapon was quiet he'd try and sneak away. Unless he was doing it for attention, and wanted to get captured after the attack.

216

u/SelloutRealBig 7d ago

It's rather hard to conceal a bow if you are walking around.

48

u/mbattagl 7d ago

You'd think he would've thrown it away.

58

u/ThatHorridMan 7d ago

Shit's expensive yo

→ More replies
→ More replies

111

u/BlatantConservative 7d ago

Over the past, say, 10 years or so I can only think of one MCE where the killer tried to evade the cops. The Bataclan shootings in France.

I'm not a psychologist or whatever, but I don't think these people have much of a plan beyond the actual killing.

39

u/themaincop 7d ago

Usually it's either a suicide or they want to get their manifesto out into the world.

24

u/mbattagl 7d ago

Yeah they usually don't.

The Parkland shooter did attempt to flee from Stonam Douglass after the School Resource Officer and the Broward Country Sheriff department let him escape the building.

→ More replies

55

u/Ragolsnagol 7d ago

Stealth archer in real life doesn't work I guess

→ More replies

627

u/broccolee 7d ago edited 7d ago

It's silent so you could probably turn a corner and hide in plain sight.

Edit: Several mention releasing a bow is not silent. Agree. Point was compared to a gun shot, and what reaction that has on a public crowd. Additionally, I don't know if bow sound would alert one to an urgent sense of danger, or the location of it. Because it's not what you expect. A lot of weird sounds in a city ambience.

626

u/ViciousNakedMoleRat 7d ago

If someone with a bow keeps on moving through the city, it's actually pretty hard to catch them. You can't hear him and if it's from a distance, people won't be able to tell where it even came from. Also nobody expects someone to do anything with a bow. If I saw someone with a gun or knife, I would leave the area, but if someone walked around with a bow, I would probably just be a bit confused.

227

u/MotharChoddar 7d ago

That's actually really scary. I hope terrorists don't get ideas from this.

11

u/booze_clues 7d ago

Honestly the extra time a terrorist could get with a bow would still probably cost less lives than any determined terrorist with a gun.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

100

u/PwmEsq 7d ago

"Did you hear something? Must have been the wind."

→ More replies
→ More replies

236

u/VoraciousTrees 7d ago

Recurve bows have pretty similar projectile energy to rifle rounds... and they're quiet so they don't spook the animals.

165

u/Agrochain920 7d ago

Yeah that's probably the most terrifying part, the fact that he could kill what seems to be at least 7 is probably because people just weren't aware that there was someone killing people just nearby

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

5k

u/I_literally_can_not 7d ago edited 6d ago

The attacks started at 18:13 local time in a local Coop supermarket (less than three hours ago at the time of this comment), still no word on how many killed or injured..

Edit: more information and photos found on /r/Norway here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Norway/comments/q7ibhe/mass_casualties_in_kongsberg_norway_read_captions

And in Norwegian:

https://www.reddit.com/r/norge/comments/q7gtsg/en_p%C3%A5grepet_i_kongsberg_etter_%C3%A5_ha_skutt_med_pil

One possible eyewitness:

https://twitter.com/ikketangen/status/1448340212082479107?t=Pzb1ufEZ8um8KobydgVTmg&s=19

Update: at least 4 dead, one police officer reportedly involved.. condolences to the victims loved ones..

https://twitter.com/MarteFotball/status/1448378735623868417?t=B-GpmhKUiB8tyeL3ydJGVg&s=09

Update: police officer was shot in the back. RIP..

https://twitter.com/bestgug/status/1448386111919714305?t=FE5sUNALwdH1MCLgsM23WQ&s=19

Update: One alleged shooter was reportedly identified, but I refuse to publish any names here other than the victims since nothing is confirmed at this time. (And the suspect does not deserve to be named)

There is are several persons being falsely identified as the shooter now. Please do not jump to conclusions and start harassing the innocent! The police are doing their job. Don't make it harder for them.

2k

u/Bohemianbitchslap 7d ago

Such a brutal way to die, who ever did this a monster.

→ More replies

1k

u/PanserKalle 7d ago

Why the fuck does shit like this happen?

170

u/GucciJesus 7d ago

The last guy in Norway to do this was a white dude trying to prove how dangerous brown people were by killing lots of white kids. It's often best not to consider the thought process behind this stuff.

→ More replies

280

u/dowboiz 7d ago

Angry suicide.

Striking back at reality because they hate it.

→ More replies
→ More replies

514

u/PrisonChickenWing 7d ago

Method of death? Bleed to death? Slow and painful or quick?

1k

u/SapientCell 7d ago

That will depend on two factors : 1) type of arrow point 2) placement of the shot.

A hunting point such as a broadhead does devastating damage and if the bow has 40lb + draw, that's enough strength for the arrow to go through a human body. If the broadhead hits a major artery, the person would lose consciousness as quickly as two minutes. If the person is hit in the lungs , then the person essentially drown in their own blood. Reported to be very painful. If not hit the vital, then it's survivable.

215

u/FriendoftheDork 7d ago

Hunting is not legal with bow and arrow in Norway, so it may be harder to acquire specialized broadhead arrows. On the other hand, bow and arrow is itself not considered a firearm and thus not illegal to own without a license.

Crossbows are considered "firearms" though and considered deadly weapons and restricted in use.

11

u/Contundo 7d ago

Hunting tips are available online from Norwegian web store

→ More replies

504

u/PrisonChickenWing 7d ago

Clean through?? Jesus. Did medieval crossbows have the power to do that on an unarmored militia man?

1k

u/Pendaelose 7d ago

Did medieval crossbows have the power to do that on an unarmored militia man?

They had the power to do that on ARMORED men. It was quite the big deal at the time and was a significant reason armies stopped using heavy armor.

1k

u/toddthewraith 7d ago

It was also "you need like 5 mins of training to use this" instead of years for longbow.

897

u/Pendaelose 7d ago

Yeah. I remember reading once that the crossbow was considered "evil" by some for that same reason. If it allows an trained and experienced knight to be defeated by a child how can it be "godly"?

207

u/BlazinAzn38 7d ago

The Pope I believe had it outlawed in use against fellow Christians because it was so devastating

131

u/013ander 7d ago

The crossbow was a threat because it let an untrained peasant kill an armored nobleman. Feudalism, you gotta keep the peasants afraid of you.

→ More replies
→ More replies

335

u/jedijbp 7d ago

There’s an episode of The Legend of Prince Valiant animated series from the early 90’s that uses a crossbow accident as an allegory for children playing with guns. One of the main characters almost dies. One of the few episodes with blood.

82

u/Tra1famador 7d ago

That's a cool anecdote thanks for sharing man, I might have to check that series out.

27

u/jedijbp 7d ago edited 7d ago

Oh it’s fucking amazing. It’s ad free on YouTube I believe. After seeing the first 10 or so, I bought the whole 60 episode 8 disk dvd set for like $60. The art/animation starts off kind of jenky and silly, but the voice acting and writing is SO good. Tim Curry’s in it! Some other really great ones. And the animation improves

→ More replies

58

u/hyldemarv 7d ago

You can visit “Øm Klostermuseum” in Denmark and there is a kids skull with a crossbow arrow embedded in it on display.

→ More replies
→ More replies

167

u/pineapple_calzone 7d ago

It was only ever considered that by the guy losing with a smaller army

286

u/Firebolt7780 7d ago edited 7d ago

Kind of like how the germans in ww1 considered the shotgun to be inhumane because a single american soldier armed with a pump action could clear a trench in no time. Bear in mind the germans (and everyone else) were using chlorine and bromine gas as weapons

62

u/Phokus1983 7d ago

Did Germans not have shotguns then, or was it too new a weapon?

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

62

u/slick8086 7d ago

the crossbow was considered "evil" by some

That's why Joffrey liked them.

→ More replies
→ More replies

229

u/P2K13 7d ago edited 7d ago

Source on that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBxdTkddHaE

This is an 160lb English longbow and it doesn't go through armour in this testing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMT6hjwY8NQ

This one is testing crossbows (976lb) and they fail to go through steel plate as well.

154

u/oneheadedboy_ 7d ago

This is an 160lb English longbow

As someone who shoots a 50lb recurve, holy shit

195

u/BlargTheElder 7d ago

Archaeologists have found skeletal remains of long-lived longbowmen; they often had severe deformities of the humerus because of the extreme forces they were regularly subjected to.

42

u/Funmachine 7d ago

It's usually because they were doing it their entire lives many mornings causing their body to develop unevenly

38

u/SydricVym 7d ago

To have both the strength and skill to shoot a 160 lb longbow, it takes a decade or more of training. This is why only England was able to deploy longbows that heavy, because it was a legal requirement in England for every man to train multiple times a week with the longbow, from about 16 years of age.

Other countries didn't even use longbows, cause they didn't have enough people shooting bows that were capable of punching through armor, and instead used the significantly more expensive, and slower to shoot, crossbows.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

64

u/SapientCell 7d ago

That's why if you look at the skeleton of an English Longbow man, it's usually deformed on one side.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

200

u/deletable666 7d ago

That is just not true. The advent of firearms and prohibitive price and changes in tactics of war and other technologies led to the reduced usage of full plated armor. Cavalry fell out of favor in favor of pike formations and firearms. Speed became important and a cavalry unit was useless in siege war or against fortifications.

Simply put, no, crossbows did not go through armored men. At point blank a crossbow might penetrate plate, but even things like gambeson and mail can do a lot to stop projectiles.

Heavy armor was only affordable to nobility and the super rich, and these people typically went to battle mounted. Take away the effectiveness of cavalry and there is less reason to send a bunch of dudes in plate into battle. Pikes and firearms. Crossbows we’re actually pretty short lived. Also the benefit was not penetrating armor, it was far less training.

27

u/Lavender-Jenkins 7d ago

Correct. I've watched several videos testing crossbows against various types of armor and they never penetrate plate.

→ More replies
→ More replies

258

u/Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho 7d ago

That is not true. Cross bows could not penetrate plate armor and their adoption in part drove a movement towards heavier armor.

If you haven't already, a youtube channel called 'todd's workshop' did a lot of tests with recreations of medieval armor and arrows. Basically, heavy bows and crossbows where devastating to flexible armor, but plate was nearly impervious.

64

u/throwt4653656 7d ago

Just found this on his channel and definitely thought it would go straight through when he winds it up with 1250 pounds, pretty interesting.

I can see it knocking a knight off his horse if not deflected but that's about it.

→ More replies

113

u/randymarsh18 7d ago

Someone here is lying. AND I DONT LIKE IT!

409

u/tireddesperation 7d ago

It's a much more complicated answer then either of these two are saying. Long story short and super simplified. Bows beat unarmored so they got armor. They got a bigger bow to defeat that armor. They got thicker and more advanced armor to defeat that bow. They got the crossbow to defeat that armor. They made thicker and better armor to defeat that crossbow. They made a better crossbow to defeat that armor. They made better armor to defeat the crossbow. Then guns cane and they couldn't really make armor at the time to defeat the gun and canon so it started going away.

This is SUPER simplified. For example the type of arrow and arrowhead changing also changed what armor it could penetrate. The poundage of the bow and crossbow made a huge difference. The range and height you were firing from made a difference. The skill of the Bowman, crossbowman, or gunner made a difference in hitting places that were weaker or unarmored.

There were battles where the bow was useless against the armor so the armored men would just look down to make sure they didn't take one in the eye and just walked forward. There are battles where heavy cav in armor were dropped nearly alone by archers. It depends what point in history and geography you're at for any given point in history. Tech doesn't stand still.

31

u/Twilightdusk 7d ago

So it was quite literally an arms race of Armor design vs. Bow design.

→ More replies

36

u/An0naway 7d ago

Not a terrible explanation, and while fairly simple (there was an arms race cycle of better weapon <-> better armor), reality was even more complicated due to economics and diplomacy.

Bows did not have to defeat the heaviest armor in every circumstance. They were not supposed to beat the heaviest armor everywhere. Super heavy armor was so expensive and rare enough (small percentage of any given force) that while yes, it was a worry, it wasn't the main source of worry in battle (and in fact, rich people were incentivized to make sure weapons didn't beat armor easily because why kill the rich people in armor when you could just wreck the rest of the army).

While a bow may not penetrate a breastplate, the heaviest and most stationary/easy to engineer part of a suit, it WILL penetrate mail and some of the extremity armor, which can often take someone out of the fight. Or, if they are cavalry, take out the horse. Small arms didn't change this much, as breastplates would still stop rounds from guns (modern body armor can do this as well). Artillery did change it.

That's not to take away from your explanation, as you say, it's simplified. But essentially, the best armor "beat" weapons, in many different parts of history. It just didn't beat it in every circumstance.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

12

u/pringles_prize_pool 7d ago

How common was plate armor, though? That must have been very expensive.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

31

u/son_et_lumiere 7d ago

It looks like practice tips from the pictures in the r/norway thread.

→ More replies
→ More replies

75

u/roadrunner036 7d ago

depends on where it hit, anywhere from a fleshwound to bleeding out in 60 seconds

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

4k

u/3nzo_the_baker 7d ago

This is my home town. My buddies went to the same store 20 mins before he started shooting. Just unreal.

1k

u/gentlybeepingheart 7d ago

Jesus I can’t even imagine. Hope your friends/family are all alright.

1k

u/3nzo_the_baker 7d ago

Luckily they are. My cousin actually works at that store, but he was not at work this afternoon.

→ More replies
→ More replies

93

u/AsthmaK1d 7d ago

i go to the school thats right next to where it happened. Apparently one in my class had his dad shot in the back, kinda scary

66

u/3nzo_the_baker 7d ago

Holy shit. Kinda?? That's horrific. Is the father ok?

43

u/AsthmaK1d 7d ago

idk yet he just put it on his story

→ More replies
→ More replies

276

u/Reelii 7d ago

Im glad your friends are ok. My sister lives just down the street from the attack, luckily she was warned early and kept at home. Very much unreal.

129

u/3nzo_the_baker 7d ago

Thank god for that. My friends were doing some maintenance work at Møllergata, the street behind the store. So they were a couple of hundred meters away when it happened.

→ More replies

106

u/NorgesTaff 7d ago

Hey kongsberg dude - I used to shop there occasionally myself not so long ago. I feel for you - it’s unreal to be reading about this from Oslo and I’m feeling selfish for hoping none of my friends were hurt. I guess I will find out tomorrow.

68

u/3nzo_the_baker 7d ago

I think it's completely natural to think of your friends first. Crossing my fingers for your news update tomorrow. I feel for the ones that lost someone. Utterly devastating.

12

u/NorgesTaff 7d ago

I mean Kongsberg ? Fuck, who would have thought it would happen there? I always had a niggle of worry that the park would be attacked or bombed with KDA there and all but I never imagined something like this. Damn, awful shit. :(

9

u/deinarastas 7d ago

damn. i spent a year there at heistadmoen in the past. this sucks. I remember 1994 , when I was in the army, where a person murdered some soldiers just two months after i left service, some of whom i knew, with an automatic weapon.

→ More replies

3k

u/meteoritee 7d ago edited 7d ago

Bow and arrow is an interesting way to commit mass murder. What a horrific tragedy, I hope they have indeed apprehended the right person.

1k

u/accountnameredacted 7d ago

A lot of people underestimate a bow and arrows. You will bleed a LOT. Especially with some of the nasty looking tips/heads they have for various styles of hunting.

1k

u/dwilkes827 7d ago

My dad was a hunter, I picked up one of his broad head arrows one time when I was younger...barely touched the damn thing and needed a few stitches

802

u/bassinine 7d ago

yeah, there's a reason that ancient hunters spent hours and hours flint knapping arrowheads instead of just using a sharpened stick.

444

u/Braelind 7d ago

Hell, obsidian arrow heads can be up to 1000 times sharper than modern medical scalpels!

327

u/rares215 7d ago

But they're really brittle from what I've heard, so hardly reusable because they're likely to shatter on impact. Obsidian is very sharp but also very fragile, which is why very few doctors are willing to use obsidian scalpels.

388

u/very_large_bird 7d ago edited 7d ago

Saw an amazing video where an archaeologist demonstrated how a single piece of obsidian is used throughout the entire hunting process. Essentially once the animal is killed a large, hand axe style piece is used to hack the animal into quarters and gut it. Then the now full hand axe is napped to a thinner knife type instrument that is used to cut the meat and skin the hide. It goes through a couple more iterations but eventually gets napped down to a small enough piece for an arrow head or a spear point.

We have to remember, ancient humans even though less advanced, were just as smart as us. I’ll link the video if I can find it

Edit: good news and bad news. Good news I found the video. Bad news is that it’s copyrighted and not on YouTube, if you really want to find it, through legal means or otherwise, it’s called “Flint Knapping with Bruce Bradley PhD”

387

u/the_wrath_of_grath 7d ago

We have to remember, ancient humans even though less advanced, were just as smart as us.

You overestimate me

71

u/ConnorKeane 7d ago

Hey now, someone had to taste the random berries to see if they’re poisonous or not.

14

u/Deathbringerttv 7d ago

Safety Monkey is a valuable part of the community.

→ More replies

16

u/Random_Stealth_Ward 7d ago

Nah, remember that there were a lot of dead people that weren't as smart.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

69

u/beenoc 7d ago

Though if anyone says "why the fuck are we using steel scalpels then?", it's because obsidian (and stone in general) doesn't hold an edge super well. Not bad, it'll still be sharp, but metal blades stay sharper longer.

60

u/Impossible-Neck-4647 7d ago

more like obsidian is really fragile and you do no want to leave super sharp tiny stone shards inside of people when performing surgery

→ More replies

28

u/DarthMolar 7d ago

Scalpels suck after a few cuts. I often have to get a new blade after a few incisions. Using a fresh sharp blade makes a big difference. When you get down to connective tissue and bone it will dull the scalpel really fast.

Not to say it’s not still sharp. Just not nearly as sharp as a fresh one.

Edit: I would much prefer my steel scalpel to obsidian lashed to a stick (just in case anyone thought I was advocating for surgery with obsidian)

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

217

u/portablebiscuit 7d ago

I remember touching one when I was very young (probably 4ish). I thought it was sticky because every time I touched the edge my finger would stick. I recall looking down and seeing rows of tiny cuts on my tiny fingertip and so much blood.

78

u/dwilkes827 7d ago

Yea them things are no joke. At least you were 4, I was like 14 and was still dumb enough to run my finger across the blade lmao

25

u/CankerLord 7d ago

"It's a knife on a stick, how sharp could it be? Sticks are blunt as fuck."

→ More replies

49

u/casualbearsuit 7d ago

Slightly different, but I remember as a kid, my dad liked to collect interesting weapons (Spears, blow guns, knives). Picked up one of his punch daggers one time and barely touched it against a plastic bottle... instantly went through it and tore it in half.

People underestimate the damage blades can do. Yikes.

→ More replies

229

u/timpdx 7d ago

Compound bow with a broadhead is a weapon to take seriously. Meant to drop 200lbs of deer as quickly (and humanely) as possible.

75

u/rohobian 7d ago

I remember having dinner with a friend and her family, and her dad and brother were talking about hunting, and the crossbow they use, bolts, etc. I was surprised to find out that a bolt will go clean through a deer - assuming they weren't messing with me.

127

u/Lexx2k 7d ago

assuming they weren't messing with me

They didn't. The shit punches through like its paper.

60

u/Shlimmy 7d ago

Oh absolutely, my dad used to hunt with a compound bow. I remember once he thought he had missed his shot, but when retrieving his arrow found that it was covered in a layer of deer fat.

→ More replies

22

u/Kurayamino 7d ago

A bullet is designed to stop in a target and dump all of its energy into it. If it goes through then you're doing less damage than you could be.

A broadhead is designed to go through the target, cutting open a large wound in the process so that if you miss anything vital the animal will bleed to death quickly. If it stops in the target it will actually help stop the bleeding.

19

u/bkconn 7d ago

It absolutely will.

→ More replies

134

u/Dull_Sundae9710 7d ago

I know dudes that bow hunt 1200lb moose. I’ve even seen a few crazy bastards hunt grizzly with a bow.

122

u/Accmonster1 7d ago

That just doesn’t seem like a good idea

78

u/SilentSwine 7d ago

Yeah, really kind of seems like something you'd have to be a real crazy bastard to want to do

26

u/Kryptosis 7d ago

Tree stands help

13

u/Accmonster1 7d ago

Is it grizzlys or black bears that climb?

22

u/ezekirby 7d ago

Both I think. I know black bears are climbing machines. They climb as fast as some people run.

22

u/PangPingpong 7d ago

Black bears climb, grizzlies push down the tree if it's not thick enough.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

39

u/ThePatManJones 7d ago

I’d imagine they have a sidearm with a rather sizable caliber bullet just in case

20

u/Rinzack 7d ago

.44 magnum and 10mm are the smallest recommended calibers for sidearms when in bear country. .45, .40 S&W, .357, and 9mm can work if you hit the right spot but that’s a massive risk

→ More replies

19

u/rgrwilcocanuhearme 7d ago

I read about a bear that got shot in the head once. The bear charged the shooter with most of his skull missing. Thing was certainly going to die, but just because you're going to die doesn't mean you're dead.

Few things in life would be more terrifying than a half skulled mad bear charging you down.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

1k

u/CurbYourThusiasm 7d ago

I live here. There's rumors of knives and guns as well. About half a dozen ambulances from a neighboring city was called, so I expect a lot of people have been killed. Apparently, he killed/injured these people over a pretty massive area.

I can recall maybe one or two murders here in my entire lifetime.

543

u/Excelius 7d ago

Apparently, he killed/injured these people over a pretty massive area.

Mass killing versus spree killing. The former involves a large number of victims in a small area, the latter spreads them out over a larger time and area.

Spree attacks are particularly effective when using weapons that don't allow a high rate of fire. So instead the attacker attacks a one or two people in a location, and then moves to another location before police can arrive.

The 2011 Cumbria shootings in the UK are a good example of this pattern. The attacker would just shoot one or two people in an area, and then leave the scene for another area.

Which incidentally, happened a bit over a month before the Utoya island massacre in Norway.

356

u/activator 7d ago

Or the 2020 Nova Scotia killing spree... Absolute madness.

The 2020 Nova Scotia attacks was a thirteen-hour rampage in April 2020 in the Canadian province of Nova Scotia. On April 18–19, Gabriel Wortman committed multiple shootings and set fires at 16 locations in Nova Scotia, killing 22 people and injuring three others before he was shot and killed by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP)

For part of the thirteen-hour crime spree, Wortman impersonated a police officer by driving a replica police car and wearing a police uniform.

255

u/mcgral18 7d ago edited 7d ago

The politics behind that one are pretty disgusting

"There's no need to investigate why police never took action regarding the man with multiple reports of illegal firearms and uttering threats"

They relented after national outcry, but still pretty fucked up

89

u/Napalm985 7d ago

Even worse, two RCMP members shot up a firehall where people were taking shelter at during the attack. That is even ignoring the fact that they didn't once use the cell phone emergency alert and decided that Twitter was the best way to warn people during the thirteen-hour spree.

→ More replies
→ More replies

32

u/UnseenDegree 7d ago

It’s even scarier to think that the RCMP couldn’t really tell people what to watch out for because the replica police car he was driving was identical to the real thing except for the car number. No one would be able to tell the difference unless they were up close.

If I remember correctly, the group of tactical officers that ended up killing him at a gas station didn’t realize it was him for quite a while because he was wearing their uniforms still.

13

u/keebsandcables 7d ago

If I remember correctly, the group of tactical officers that ended up killing him at a gas station didn’t realize it was him for quite a while because he was wearing their uniforms still.

This is not true, he had changed out of the uniform by then and had stolen a civilian vehicle that was low on gas. He was followed from an initial gas station to a second one and by the videos account it appears the tactical squad pulled up on him with guns drawn and essentially executed him while he was still sat in the car.

Apparently he had visible injuries at the first gas station which initially caught one of the cop's attention, he also pulled up on the wrong side of the pump for the car's tank as it wasn't his. Once he realized he tried to bring the hose around the far side anyways, obviously this didn't work and instead of pulling around to the right side of the pump he drove off down the road (ending up at the second/final station). Supposedly they jumped in their trucks and took off after him, kinda weird they let him drive away in the first place IMO.

→ More replies
→ More replies

135

u/10000Didgeridoos 7d ago

Also the Virginia/Maryland/Washington DC spree snipers in 2003. They used a sniper nest in the trunk of a car to snipe random adults and children for several weeks until they were caught sleeping at a highway rest stop.

It was a terrifying time to live there. We had school closed several days at a time when there was evidence they were in the area. They shot people pumping fuel at a petrol station, in a restaurant parking lot, outside a school, and several other totally random victims. There was no agenda with who died. It was just who happened to be outside when they decided to take a shot.

49

u/kroganwarlord 7d ago

I remember our homecoming football game had to be held at a 'secure location', which was another high school an hour away. No one was allowed to attend other than parents. No cheerleaders, no classmates. The parents weren't told where we were going. They just followed the buses.

People waited hours in line on the military bases around here to get gas, because they were pretty sure the snipers didn't have a military ID and they were still inspecting cars after 9/11.

...what a fucked-up time.

38

u/mydearwatson616 7d ago

My dad got into a car accident during that time and I remember being terrified that he was stuck standing on the side of the road when they could be anywhere. Back when everyone thought they were operating out of a white box truck.

32

u/BlatantConservative 7d ago

I remember the smart gas station owners hanging tarps up so nobody could see into the gas area.

18

u/Sykotik 7d ago

Yup. I live 4 minutes from there. There were like a half dozen helicopters flying around that night.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

1k

u/Chirsbom 7d ago edited 7d ago

To those that do not know. This is a small town on the edge of the mountains, with less than 30K people, a pretty peaceful place. At least 4 dead, unknown how many in total, same with injured. Bow or crossbow and knife or sword mentioned, Police might have shot at the person that is the alleged killer. Unknown reason and unclear situation.

Now, I see some refer to living in places that have higher rates of killings than this town. That is not something to brag about, just saying. Still, the method is very special, and people have died tonight. Remember that.

Update: 5 killed, 4 woman, 1 male, all above 50 years of age. Person admitted to the crimes, known by police and health care from before. Possibly radicalised.

My personal opinion based on information is that this is psychistry.

29

u/JohnObiMikel12 7d ago

Slight sidenote, by Norwegian standards 28k is medium sized. It's the 21st largest urban area in Norway. This is not some rural town no-one has heard of.

244

u/CaptainOuzo 7d ago

I can't imagine a place in Norway that isn't generally peaceful. These attacks seem so out of place given my albeit limited 3-month stint living in Norway. If there are any safer countries in the world I doubt they'd beat out Norway but much of a margin.

It would be a sad event no matter where it happened, of course.

105

u/CoyoteOnTheWing 7d ago edited 7d ago

Isn't Norway where that guy killed like 70 people at a summer camp island a decade ago? I think it's still the record for most killed in mass shooting.

82

u/nulledit 7d ago

Yes

The death toll was the worst of any attack in Norway since 2011, when far-right extremist Anders Behring Breivik killed 77 people, most of them teenagers at a youth camp

22

u/trollcitybandit 7d ago

Why the fuck did he have to go after kids though? I just don't get it.

78

u/nulledit 7d ago

He targeted the youth organization of Norway's Labor party because he's a Nazi.

→ More replies

13

u/ArcticFloofy 7d ago

Bc they were the future of the Labour party and a lot of them were immigrant children. Same reason why he bombed our government building, wanted to get rid of our people that allowed more immigrants into the country and politics. Didn't work, I've met more youth politicians from the Labour party since then than I ever did before to my great joy. I'm happy this lunatic didn't get his wish fulfilled

→ More replies

45

u/fluortablett 7d ago

Yeah, 22july of 2011. Burned in my memories

33

u/Stephenhf123 7d ago

That was a particularly severe event, but the difference between Norway and more violent areas is that incidents like this are generally isolated and they happen far less frequently. Look at this index and you'll see Norway ranks 154th out of 170 nations for intentional homicides per 100,000 citizens.

12

u/CoyoteOnTheWing 7d ago

Interesting list. I had no idea that Jamaica was so bad, sitting at #2 it has over 10x the murder rate of the US and over 100x the rate of Norway.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

88

u/Laislebai 7d ago

Police have confirmed 5 dead and 2 injured.

→ More replies

170

u/jokeren 7d ago edited 6d ago

Info from press conference that just happened

  • Everything points to him being alone in this
  • Emergency call 18.12
  • Off duty police gets shot in the back in a local store (survived)
  • First police patrol spotted him 18.18, they were fired opon and lost him.
  • All that were killed is believed to have happened after this patrol lost him
  • 4 women dead, 1 man
  • He is known to local psychiatry (edit: Said he is known to local healthcare, didnt specify psychiatry)
  • All dead 50-70 year old
  • 18.47 he gets arrested, police fire warning shots in connection with the arrest.
  • Danish citizen. Grown up in Norway.
  • Islam convert
  • They will not confirm or deny if it was a terroist attack
  • There were tips that he was getting radicalized in 2020, which were followed up. No reports in 2021.
  • Media sources saying he was convicted for threats in 2012, police wont confirm or deny

Update:

* Sentenced for drug use and burglary in 2012, sentence say he was also prior convicted for similar offences.

* In 2020 he got a 6 month restraining order after coming with death threats against family members

Update 2:
PST (Norwegian Police Security Service) who is in charge of terrorism prevention etc, say at this point they believe it to be a terrorist attack.

13

u/xxSoHappyxx 7d ago edited 6d ago

He also has a restraining order filed from two close familymembers as he threatened to kill one of them last year!

Edit: the two familymembers were his parents, and the one receiving deaththreats was his dad

→ More replies

24

u/sanchez_ 7d ago edited 7d ago

New information just released from the police:

  • The perpetrator is a 37 year old Danish citizen who has converted to Islam. The police has recieved messages of concern about the man at a previous point, regarding radicalisation.

  • He has been in contact with Norwegian health services many times.

  • The deceased are four women and one man, all between 50 and 70 years old.

  • The police encountered him twice. He first got away from them and it took them almost 30 minutes to find him again. It appears that all the victims were killed after his first encounter with the police.

  • The injured policeman got injured before the first encounter with the first police patrol.

Sounds like the police might get some criticism for this.

→ More replies

377

u/NorwegianLiberal 7d ago

I live right beside that store, its the store i go to everyday, i am in shock, i have no words. My thoughts are to the victims and their families

39

u/feltusen 7d ago

Huff. Håper det står bra til!

26

u/NorwegianLiberal 7d ago

Veldig ristet, meget redd, men tror det kommer til å gå bra. Bare tenker på de som har mistet livet

24

u/feltusen 7d ago

Full forståelig. Tanker til deg og resten av Kongsberg. Forferdelige ting som dette ryster en hel verden. Stay safe!

14

u/NorwegianLiberal 7d ago

Tusen takk!

→ More replies
→ More replies

20

u/ProfessorCunning 7d ago

Latest updates:

  • Five killed, two injured; one of those injured was an off duty police officer.

  • A Danish person in his 30s has been taken into custody and is being charged for the crimes commited.

  • It took the police 34 minutes to apprehend the suspect. Before the suspect was apprehended, the police fired warning shots.

Kripos will continue with the investigation.

→ More replies

275

u/lolabuster 7d ago

Human beings are capable of terrible things

→ More replies

444

u/thefuckingrougarou 7d ago

Holy shit. I always thought the scene in “We Need to Talk about Kevin” was unrealistic but wow. Apparently you can do a mass shooting with a bow and arrow

22

u/msuing91 7d ago

I finished watching that movie for the first time less than 1 hour before seeing this post. Just in time to tack on a bit more to F with my head.

→ More replies

298

u/RememberCitadel 7d ago

The only thing unrealistic about tv's portrayal of people getting shot with arrows, is that the arrow doesnt stop in the person and stick out like some sort of porcupine. They just keep going.

83

u/cheerioo 7d ago

My dad randomly came home with a bow when I was younger so I tried shooting a few in the backyard. One went through a wood fence and another stuck fully halfway into the ground. This was as a kid too...

26

u/ThatOneGuy1294 7d ago

I have fond memories of summer camp in Boy Scouts and going to the archery range. Bows are no joke, even in the hands of a 12 year old.

→ More replies
→ More replies

42

u/Embarrassed-Print-13 7d ago

NRK reports that at least 4 have been killed.

→ More replies

474

u/Imprettystrong 7d ago

What a fucking loser, I hate these pussies that attack innocent people that are just going about their lives.

→ More replies

588

u/ShinHayato 7d ago

In this thread about Norway: comments on American gun control.

153

u/PolOfThePot 7d ago

Those comments appear in threads about literally everything. Expect healthcare comments as well.

→ More replies
→ More replies