r/TooAfraidToAsk Dec 06 '21 All-Seeing Upvote 1 Take My Energy 1 Burning Cash 1 'MURICA 1 Silver 6 Helpful 6 Heartwarming 1 Gold 1 Wholesome 5

A lot of people say that the Covid-19 pandemic and resulting restrictions resulted in us losing our freedoms. What freedoms did we lose exactly, if any? Pandemic & Lockdown

Many people (mostly from the conservative/libertarian side) keep saying that because of the ongoing Covid-19 pandemic, the government took away a lot of our freedoms, or that the government used the pandemic to reduce our freedoms and control us even more. But I don’t see where we lost any of our freedoms, and therefore don’t understand what these people are talking about.

I don’t feel like I lost any freedoms because of the pandemic. I still went to work as usual (unless I was quarantined for possible exposure). My freedom of speech to talk about Covid never got restricted or censored in any way, I still got to travel to most places freely so as long as I followed protocols like masks or social distancing. I got the Covid-19 vaccine willingly and never felt threatened or coerced into taking it with violence or some other harm, and wearing a mask isn’t/wasn’t me trading my freedoms away; it was part of a group effort to mitigate the pandemic as much as possible. Again, I don’t see how anyone lost their freedoms in any way because of the pandemic. So what am I missing?

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u/Hospitalities Founder & Mod Dec 07 '21 edited Dec 07 '21 Silver Helpful Wholesome All-Seeing Upvote Take My Energy

Not-so friendly reminder that we’re not anti-vax sympathetic.

Are you anti-mandate and can communicate the freedoms or rights you feel have been violated or taken away without being a massive dick? Not banned, in fact you’re welcome to continue your discussion throughout all of 2A2A.

Do you have concerns regarding how the government has had a declaration of emergency for nearly 2 years and have done basically nothing to help those among us the most impacted by those declarations? Not banned.

Are you discussing how various countries have handled the pandemic and how you feel about it? Not banned.

Are you mad that the lockdowns essentially shut down small business and funneled money to a bunch of billionaires whom hedged their basically limitless money-well to outlast any meaningful competition? Not banned.

These aren’t the only talking points allowed, just some examples from this very thread.

However: Comparisons between Covid and the flu, statements regarding the “lack of testing” of the vaccines, implying that the pandemic was planned, statements implying the long term effects of the vaccine are somehow worse than long term effects of Covid, still parroting the long-since debunked fertility impacts, suggesting alternative medicine, implying masks don’t work etc etc will get you permanently banned.

I am not acutely aware of other spaces that are accepting of the above talking points but I will tell you this is not one of them. It hasn’t been one since the beginning of the pandemic.

Be kind, be respectful, be genuine. If you’re not anti-vax, you should be able to hold a respectful conversation in this sub without common anti-vax talking points.

Special shout-out to those of you who save me the time and comment under this some hot take about this sub, y’all the real MVPs. Can’t wait to read your hot takes later on a different sub “banned from TooAfraidToAsk for breaking their rules and being warned ahead of time, 1984!”

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u/SulfideBride Dec 06 '21 edited Dec 07 '21 Silver Hugz Heartwarming

I lost being able to visit my dad while he was lucid right before he died, by the time he was put in palliative care after being In the icu for a week he was living past memories and forgot who I and his grand-daughter were. I lost being able to say goodbye and telling him we loved him so much. He lost out being surrounded by family as he should have been while he passed.
Edit: Just wanted to add an edit that he died of Cancer

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u/sumwaah Dec 07 '21 Helpful Hugz

I’m so sorry for your loss. I too lost my dad in August. I tried for months to go see him but Covid, US immigration and travel restrictions made it impossible. I couldn’t tell him I loved him, hold his hand or hug him. It is one of the hardest things I’ve had to endure. I am sure must have been for you and your family as well :’(

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u/SulfideBride Dec 07 '21

Thank you, and I'm so sorry you were robbed of that moment as well.

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u/Sweets_is_here Dec 06 '21

This is incredibly heartbreaking, i am very sorry for your loss.

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u/SulfideBride Dec 06 '21

Thank you

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u/FuzzyEarz Dec 07 '21

Happened to my grandpa as well. We had to wait in the lobby and go up one by one to say our farewells. They wouldn't let more than one of us up at a time and we were terrified that in between someone going up and down the elevators that he would pass with no one there with him.

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u/SulfideBride Dec 07 '21

That is so hard as well, growing up we knew from our later teen years that when it came to a family member's end of life we would all be there or try to be, that way they wouldn't be alone and would be surrounded by love.

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u/TSB_1 Dec 07 '21 Helpful

As someone that has lost 2 family members to dementia paired with parkinsons/alzheimers, I understand a portion of your loss and pain. I doubt it will be of any comfort to you, but both instances for me ended up being extremely painful and traumatic for me and my family.

My grandparents were both HUGE advocates for my joining the military. Their children all grew up to be doctors and lawyers and none had ever served in the military. But both of them had served during WW2. Grandfather was a medic in the Army and then a corpsman in the Navy. Grandmother was a nurse aboard the same hospital ship my grandfather served on.

They were EXCEPTIONALLY proud when I joined and when I graduated Basic(they both wanted to travel, but were not capable) and when I determined that I would be quite close-by to them when I was in my A-School, they promised that they would make it to my graduation(they both did).

After leaving the service, I actually went back to the area near where they lived to finish my masters degree and at that time my grandfather was plummeting thru the dementia brought on by his parkinsons. He didn't remember me at all. it was a year and a half of heartbreaking weekends spent helping my grandmother(who was in failing health herself) take care of him when the caregivers were not there. He passed shortly before I graduated, and she did not want me to see him the last few weeks before he passed. She was a nurse, and she knew it would be horrible to see him in that state.

It turned out that when my father and uncles were there at the end, he actually seemed scared, not of death, but of the people surrounding him. He didnt recognize anyone, not his sons, not his wife of 71 years... no one.

And it was the same for my grandmother as well. dementia, brought on by an undetected brain tumor. She had already stated in her advance directive that she didn't want any of the grandchildren to see her decline. She actually had a weird day where she was actually lucid and she facetimed with her grandchildren(myself included) and it was unreal... What does one say? beyond the "I love yous" and "I will remember you" what CAN one say that will make any difference. Sadly, she dropped back into a bout of "who are these people" and was fearful... Hurt to see it unfold.

Dunno why I sent you this wall of text, I just hope that you know that your father loved you very much, and despite his failing body and mind, you meant everything to him. Your daughter as well.

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u/SulfideBride Dec 07 '21

Thank you so much, and thank you for sharing your story. It helps to know that you also aren't alone with what you've been going through.

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u/TSB_1 Dec 07 '21

I honestly went from hoping for passing away surrounded by loved ones to wanting to peacefully pass away in my sleep. I have come to realize that, given my family health history, I will very likely inherit something that will destroy me slowly and painfully(if not to myself, than to the ones I love). My advance directive(hard to believe that at 37 I would have to write one) states that if I am diagnosed with any form of mental state altering condition, I am to be allowed to travel to a country that permits assisted suicide. I do not want to put any of my family members thru what I have witnessed.

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u/SulfideBride Dec 07 '21

I can completely understand where you're coming from. I think I would want to go peacefully instead of the ways cancer has ravaged family members.

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u/PurpleCollarAndCuffs Dec 07 '21

Sitting here crying friend. I just went through this with my mum as her primary. Watching the fear, the paranoia the wasting both mental and physical is so, so hard.

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u/TSB_1 Dec 07 '21

I can't advocate enough for not just a living will, but an advance directive that states in clear terms what you want to happen if you are diagnosed with certain conditions.

The hardest part of the whole thing for me was not knowing if those memories of me were gone forever with my grandfather. He never had a moment of lucidity. Barely remembered his wife.

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u/PurpleCollarAndCuffs Dec 07 '21

The moments when my mum was lucid and knew she was not remembering things were the hardest. I just kept telling her it was my job to remember for us both. It gave her comfort, and now, looking back I am glad I did. It is now your job to remember. That is the important thing. Remember who they were, because they made you who you are. And that is the greatest gift.

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u/sosobandit Dec 07 '21

This comment is tragic and beautiful at the same time to see how much your grandparents were loved. My mom passed from a brain tumor. She had a successful operation that gave her back to us for about 2 or 3 months but sadly it came back with a vengeance.

I didn't value what a gift that was, I was 18 at the time (very selfish) and grew up religious to a point where I knew she would make it through because us as a family (and especially her) did everything we could for God and there's no way he would take my mother away from us early.

This is my wall of text wishing I could have one more lucid conversation with her and show her pictures of her grandchildren. I dont know why I wrote it either but to say I appreciate your story. Thank you.

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u/leftoverrice54 Dec 07 '21

That has been the absolute hardest part about working in the nursing home through covid. When covid was going crazy we have scheduled visitations and no more than 4 visitors could be in the building at once. People were pretty aggressive about setting up times and got super pissed when they couldnt get a time.

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u/seahawkguy Dec 07 '21

My brother in laws mom died and no one was allowed to visit her while she was in the hospital. She died alone. And the burial was closed casket.

But yay. Some people aren’t affected.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '21

Definitely heartbreaking. Sorry for your loss. My grandparents died within like 2-3 days of each other because somehow Covid got into the nursing home. I saw them for the last time in December of 2019. They died in summer of 2020.

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u/Not-KDA Dec 06 '21 Silver Wholesome

Gained the freedom to walk into a bank with my face covered.

That was a big no no before covid. 😊

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u/SuspendedInOH Dec 06 '21

Hell the bankers cover their faces too.

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u/notsurehowthishappen Dec 06 '21

Who is robbing who now

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u/-newlife Dec 07 '21 Wholesome Wearing is Caring Starstruck

The bank is robbing us, this has not changed.

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u/herotz33 Dec 07 '21

Too big to fail. Banks been looking for a reason to cover their faces forever.

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u/Qwerzq- Dec 07 '21

as a banker I can confirm this one

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u/herotz33 Dec 07 '21

Wear a condom with your mask so at least we know we won’t get STDs when you fuck with us. Lol

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u/Qwerzq- Dec 07 '21

when we are done with you, STD's aren't the biggest problem you'll have

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u/Aercturius Dec 06 '21

At last they look like the criminals they've always been...

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u/tad_wangley Dec 06 '21

Big difference between an investment banker and the ones getting paid 15/hour to open your checking account

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u/namesthatarenttaken Dec 06 '21 All-Seeing Upvote

Not if you work at Wells Fargo

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u/tad_wangley Dec 06 '21

Ha! True, but I don’t think they were necessary evil, just trying to keep food on the table. The folks higher up can go fuck themselves though

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u/Aercturius Dec 06 '21

Very true, but whenever someone says "bankers" it's hardly a term to describe working-class bank employees.

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u/Goem Dec 06 '21 edited Dec 07 '21

True, bankers are the ones who you meet with to do bank and account stuff. The guys behind the counters are clerks tellers as far as I know

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u/PurpleCornCob Dec 07 '21

Lol I'm a banker and I'm basically just a glorified teller. I still do the deposits and withdrawals, but I can also click the button that opens a new account. I get paid a dollar an hour more to get yelled at because I asked for an ID. Tellers get yelled at for the same reason, though, so I guess I deserve that ire.

The real problems are the people that own the banks. And the people that fight to de-regulate banking. And the people who fight to add more regulations. Anyone fighting about banking regulations is probably a jerk tbh

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '21

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u/Kenny-The-Reaver Dec 07 '21

which is ironic cus carrying and covering your face is a felony in most states. I am genuinely curious if anyones gotten in trouble for doing this. I do it all the time without thinking about it.

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u/Buhrdt Dec 07 '21

It was weird walking into a business with a mask on and concealed firearm, walking out with more money than I walked in with. All I did was cash a check.

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u/Kenny-The-Reaver Dec 07 '21

Your FBI agent must be one stressed out dude.

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u/Buhrdt Dec 07 '21

I bet he's actually pretty bored. I am very boring and uneventful.

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u/UncatchableCreatures Dec 07 '21

u/buhrdt Ive received the football, I will wait for you to sign at T station for the payout. 1800

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u/GanderAtMyGoose Dec 07 '21

Sure buddy, we've just got a few questions for you if you'll come with me.

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u/EndlessSummerburn Dec 06 '21

In all seriousness, I have more freedoms in a lot of ways than I ever did before covid, not in a legal way but from a societal standpoint.

The entire concept of work/life balance has completely changed. I can work remote when I want and my time on the clock is valued more. In general, basically across the board, I have more leverage as an employee than ever before which has been very freeing.

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u/International_Cat927 Dec 07 '21

Agreed. My life has been less stressful in the long run, I don't have to deal with 2.5 hours total of traffic daily, I get to sleep in til 8a instead of having be up at 6a. I received money obligation free from the government, I haven't had a cold or any sickness of any kind in over 2 years, and now I really have a pretty amazing small group of friends that I can totally count on and likewise. I'd say, life is definitely better in that respect.

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u/zsomgyiii Dec 06 '21 Silver

That’s what I’ve been fucking saying too. So fucking crazy. The last thing government want is for us to have our face covered all the

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u/The-Last-Kin Dec 07 '21 Silver Bravo Grande!

Omg the government got to him before he could even finish his

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u/teacherlife15 Dec 07 '21

This made me giggle. Thanks!

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u/terranq Dec 07 '21

Holy shit! Look out guys, it’s Candleja

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u/Immediate_Rooster_97 Dec 07 '21

I get a kick out of people that said the world governments planned this all. Fuck Canadian government couldn't even hid the government scandal at the start of this. There is no way the world's governments could have planned this.

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u/Reasonable_Night42 Dec 06 '21

I’m licensed to carry concealed.

It felt weird walking into a convenience store with a gun in my pocket putting on a mask.

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u/Not-KDA Dec 06 '21

I mean at that point you might as well just finish the job 🙄

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u/hahAAsuo Dec 07 '21

I wouldn’t be suprised if actual criminals just use face masks at this point

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u/PooFlingerMonkey Dec 06 '21 Silver Take My Energy

Many small businesses here in Michigan lost the freedom to conduct business, while big box stores were allowed to operate.

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u/throwawayedm2 Dec 07 '21 Silver

Yep. So much money and business went from small, local businesses straight to Amazon.

The entire lockdowns have benefited the ultra rich massively while screwing over small business owners.

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u/heraclitus33 Dec 07 '21

Us gained 100+ new billionaires from covid right?

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u/HI_Handbasket Dec 07 '21

And lost 700,000 regular folks in the process.

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u/ericlarsen2 Dec 07 '21

That pisses me off most. Just because my local florist or whatever doesn't have lobbyist in D. C. They were essentially shut down and all funds diverted to Walmart/Amazon and such.

So damn sad for real.

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u/Tychodragon Dec 07 '21

joes coffee shop has to close down for the 6th time meanwhile 600 people can cram into walmart 24 hours a day

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u/cybercobra Dec 07 '21

D.C. ? The lockdowns were at the state and local level, not national.

Big boxes largely got around lockdowns by virtue of also having grocery departments. But yes, it was a massively unfair loophole that they could keep their other departments open, whereas freestanding non-food shops had to close.

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u/mmdoublem Dec 07 '21

France, did a smart thing, the big box stores had to close down the aisle that were not open to competition.

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u/VibeComplex Dec 07 '21

Yeah America tried that and people bitched endlessly. Don’t forget our country was also run by people that think it’s a hoax still

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u/Business_Camp807 Dec 07 '21

In Michigan, parks were closed too🤯 I remember trying to go hiking!! and all the parking lots and entrances were roped off!!!

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u/Arika20 Dec 07 '21

Because…the staff…were also home, like you?

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u/balorina Dec 07 '21

It’s worth noting that even big box stores in Michigan had to deal with completely arbitrary restrictions.

Went to the grocery store to get an orchid for Easter. Was told they can’t sell orchids because of the restriction on live plants, but you can buy a bouquet of cut flowers if I wanted.

Together with the above, “garden sections” were required to be closed. But you could put all those items in an end cap and you’re fine. For example, seeds weren’t banned, you just couldn’t buy them from a “garden center” you had to buy them from another part of the store. WalMart and large retailers did so, smaller stores without the product space were told to suffer.

Boats with engines were banned, but those without were fine. You could remove the engine from your boat and row it out onto the water.

The first travel restriction that was lifted? You can now travel to your second home. Because that’s what the normal people in the state were waiting for.

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u/justirrelephant Dec 06 '21 Silver

You cannot travel internationally as freely as you could before covid. Every country has their own unique guidelines and protocols.

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u/playlikechampions Dec 06 '21 Hugz

My parents live in Southeast Asia and I still haven’t seen them since COVID :/

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u/floro8582 Dec 07 '21

I feel you. I haven't seen my Fiancée in 3 years. We even got our Fiancée visa delayed that eventually was denied. Turns out it's extremely difficult to convince a disgruntled immigration officer that we have a bona-fide relationship when we haven't been able to see eachother because, ya know, there's a pandemic...

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u/ScrumptiousApollo Dec 07 '21

That fucking sucks. I’m so sorry to hear that.

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u/tracyptq Dec 07 '21

yo don't loose hope! I was in the same boat & finally managed to see each other in Sep I came from a country whose citizens need to apply for visa to pretty much every country too.

Have you guys tried a 3rd country?

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u/floro8582 Dec 07 '21

Thank you! We have been working on meeting in a 3rd county but it's hard because she is Vietnamese and they need a visa for pretty much every country too. It's pretty much an uphill battle to get her to be allowed to visit anywhere that isn't shut down. Luckily Vietnam is opening in select vacation spots which just so happen to be where we were planning our next trip anyways haha We are just working out the logistics of how she can visit me as the spots act like mini quarantine zones.

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u/VangB Dec 07 '21

My girlfriend of 4 years is Vietnamese and we've been dealing with the long term stuff from covid. I'm going on vacation internationally to visit her next week though which is super dope. I wish you luck

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u/3DNZ Dec 07 '21

I havent seen my daughter in over 2 years because of travel restrictions - it definitely hurts

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u/Pahoalili Dec 07 '21

I didn’t get to help my daughter when she gave birth to my first and only grandchild. However, she is now 18 months old and never once gotten sick.

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u/TheBigLeBrittski Dec 07 '21

That’s not necessarily a good thing

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u/ninja85a Dec 07 '21

Yeah its nice not being sick but every time you are sick your body learns how to fight it so you dont get horribly sick from the flu or something especially for a baby I would imagine its alot worse

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u/heatmorstripe Dec 06 '21

Bro I feel you. People don’t understand how many whole ass countries are totally closed off. Like yeah it’s great Taiwan has had however many months straight of no new cases but they accomplished that by basically not letting anybody in

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u/GeneNo2368 Dec 07 '21

I don't blame em, I heard this response was because how devastating the original SARS was for them.

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u/titanup001 Dec 07 '21

I live in China. I'm American and my wife is Filipino. We haven't seen our families in over two years now.

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u/CLOV2DaMoon Dec 07 '21

Why is it spelled "filipino" when the country is spelled "Phillipines"? Always wondered that.

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u/SiomaiRiceSakto Dec 07 '21 Helpful

Philippines is the international name, The local language equivalent of Philippines is Pilipinas, the letters F and P in Philippines are used interchangeably thus Pilipinas = Filipino/Pilipino.

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u/CLOV2DaMoon Dec 07 '21

Interesting. Thanks for the explanation!

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u/yepper06 Dec 07 '21

This is the worst part for me too. I just want to travel again without weird limitations or complexities. I also want to meet my new in-laws but there is nothing on the horizon yet.

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u/deathbychips2 Dec 07 '21

Well it's not the governments right to let you entered other countries that they don't govern...

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u/lazilyloaded Dec 06 '21 Starry

Entering other countries has always been a privilege given to us by those countries, not a freedom or a right.

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u/A_BadNews_Bear Dec 07 '21

This right here is so true. The fact it's more difficult now just makes it SEEM like we've lost a right - it was relatively easy to enter a foreign country before.

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u/justirrelephant Dec 06 '21

The Schengen Area is an area comprising 26 European countries that have officially abolished all passport and all other types of border control at their mutual borders. Since Covid, this has changed. So yes, crossing a border is a privilege, but free travel around the Schengen Area has changed. Citizenship aside, before covid you could freely cross borders once clearing entry customs. You can’t do this anymore.

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u/pat_the_brat Dec 07 '21

that have officially abolished all passport and all other types of border control at their mutual borders.

They have not. Passport controls are no longer mandatory, but they still routinely stop and check people, including in buses, etc. (Even before covid).

We still have freedom to travel around the EU, even if we have to comply with vaccine passports or quarantines. It's a slight inconvenience, not a loss of rights.

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u/lazilyloaded Dec 06 '21

I think there's a conflation of the term "free travel" and "freedom" here. From my perspective, freedoms are secured by our country's constitutions and/or laws. Once you leave your country's jurisdiction you don't have all of your freedoms protected anymore, you replace some of those with privileges bestowed upon you by the new country. Free travel between sovereign states has never been a freedom in the sense I'm using it.

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u/Evers1338 Dec 07 '21

Where has this changed? If you fly by plane all you need is to be vaccinated or have to do a test in the 24-48 hours before the flight and you are good. By train, car you don't even need that and can just cross the borders.

On top of that there have been situations in the past where countries closed their borders or reinstated border controls temporarily. And this is specifically part of the agreement, that countries can temporarily reinstate border controls and/or close their borders. So nothing changed there either. So what exactly changed? You need to be vaccinated or prove that you are not infected to fly, that's about it. That is very far from the drastic change you try to paint it as here.

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u/moon2009 Dec 06 '21

As a southern Swede... not many, yet. But we haven't been able to go to Denmark for 2 years because Denmark keeps changing their border rules from one day to another. Last year we had bought expensive theater tickets and weren't able to go because they shut the border the day before our date. No money back either.

But now I and my daughter have our Covid vaxx passes and hope to be able to go to the Christmas markets in Copenhagen on the 22nd, that is if they don't decide to completely shut the Sweden/Denmark border AGAIN.

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u/lucky_Lola Dec 06 '21

I feel like we have been living in a bubble. I’ve gone over twice since this all happened, the last time In summer. Rules are always changing though. I’m happy to see a Swede admit their love for Denmark. You’re rare

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u/BeardedNun1 Dec 06 '21

As a Dane who recently moved to Sweden, their friendly attitude towards me completely baffled me in the most pleasant way. I did not expect that based on the Danish perception that Swedes genuinely had a dislike for us.

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u/wishthane Dec 06 '21

From an outsider looking in, it always seemed like more just friendly mocking than anything actually serious. Just the same old "haha, potato in throat" jokes but no real animosity.

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u/BeardedNun1 Dec 07 '21

Oh for the most part it certainly is! Like brotherly love you might say :)

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u/Bliztle Dec 07 '21

It definitely is. I think the above person may just have been unlucky to see actual dislike between anyone here. Either that or I've been lucky, 'cause I've only ever heard things be said in good fun. Norway and Sweden don't feel like foreign countries in the same way Germany (another neighbour) might, given our history and somewhat shared languages

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u/moon2009 Dec 06 '21

Vi lyckades åka Helsingborg-Helsingör EN gång tidigt i pandemin. Inget sen dess.

Åh tro mig Danmark är väldigt älskat och åtråvärt bland oss Svenskar särskilt skåningar. Jag har Danmarks-abstinens.

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u/digdug2001 Dec 07 '21

It's weird how little of a privilege people realize they had. Moving to Asia with a US passport, I always just sorta assumed everyone could get a tourist visa anywhere if they wanted, but... nope. Lots of people just literally aren't allowed to leave their home countries.

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u/moon2009 Dec 06 '21

(And I know this sounds like such a first world problem but as a Skåne resident, being cut off from going to Denmark is like being cut off from your other home. Also, we're not rich, quite the opposite, we're poor as fuck, and we had saved up for those theater tickets.)

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u/svennebanan01 Dec 06 '21

As a fellow Skåning I do sympathise with you. I have been studying in the UK for quite some time under this pandemic and the difference between the two countries are astronomical. When in Sweden I felt as if there was basically nothing going on whilst in the uk we had lockdowns left right and center and constant panic rhetoric with a lot of mandates here and there. Hoppas du får till den där danmarkresan.

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u/moon2009 Dec 06 '21

If they close the border again I will fucking SWIM there. Enough is enough. ;)

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u/heatmorstripe Dec 06 '21

It’s not just Europe. Entire countries like Japan and Taiwan are also still closed to tourism, and South Korea has a mandatory 14 day quarantine so it might as well be.

Times like these it kinda sucks to be just a US citizen since I literally cannot visit loved ones.

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u/All-of-Dun Dec 06 '21 Silver

They removed the right to protest in the UK, seems like quite the loss of freedom to me

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u/shimapan_connoisseur Dec 06 '21

And some places had curfews. Literally not allowing people to leave their homes at specific times of the day is pretty draconian to me

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u/CentristCanadian Dec 06 '21 edited Dec 07 '21

I had a curfew where I live and it fucking made me lose my mind... I work night shifts and the only time i was allowed to go out was when I was...sleeping lol

I think I didnt go out of my house for 4 months (except for working) it was depressing

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '21 edited Dec 07 '21

[deleted]

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u/badgersprite Dec 07 '21 edited Dec 07 '21

There is no right to protest ingrained in our constitution in Australia. You’re not American mate. We have an implied freedom of political communication due to our right to vote.

The title of the thread is “what rights did I have and lose” not “what rights did I incorrectly believe that I had or believe I should have had that I am only just now learning never existed in my country’s constitution”.

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u/sneakyveriniki Dec 06 '21 Silver

They used it as an excuse in my city in the US, but it was only selectively, like the BLM protests. Any time there was any sort of anti police protest, they'd come out with busses at sunset and just mass arrest people for "spreading COVID". The unmasked, but heavily armed blue lives matter protests, however, were never policed whatsoever.

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u/burtvader Dec 06 '21

Not entirely accurate, protesting is still allowed so long as there is no inconvenience to the wider public.

Which in fairness, protesting kinda needs to be effective…

Boris is a cunt.

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u/PenetrationT3ster Dec 06 '21

Protests are supposed to be an inconvenience. They killed protesting for what it is, civil disobedience.

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u/thayaht Dec 06 '21

This is the big one for me. They had curfews on what time we were allowed to leave our houses, and I thought that was crossing the line.

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u/StopHavingAnOpinion Dec 06 '21 Silver Gold Helpful Wholesome Take My Energy Starry This Wearing is Caring Eureka! Timeless Beauty

From what I have seen and heard, people don't like the idea of 'Vaccine Passports'. Many believe it to be an overreach by governments, and a potential violation of medical ethics.

Passports with vaccination status' exist, but the difference is internationally. 'Vaccine passports' and other general restrictions are contentious for several reasons.

  • At one point, they were reviled as a baseless, far right conspiracy theory. Something that tinfoils on the internet ranted about. However, now they are a reality, and the rhetoric has suddenly changed. This leads some to lean more towards suspicion that the 'nutters' were right and will continue to be so.

  • Some consider it a violation of medical ethics because it is not the business of a random stranger to know your health information. It's one thing for the government to want to know if you are vaccinated to go abroad, it's another to enforce basic restrictions on domestic services on the basis of vaccination. Some believe that random people have no right to know your medical status, and that vaccine passports for domestic services is an overreach. Moreover, why is Covid the only disease this passport is for?

  • In order for a Vaccine Passport system to be effective, it has to be digital and contain information across databases. This information is liable to being sold onto other private firms, and many believe the vaccine passport systems may be another way of collecting and selling data to companies and the public.

  • It doesn't seem to be ending at nightclubs or bars. Many countries are now enforcing lockdowns and basic service restrictions on particular people, as opposed to the whole population. This fills many with suspicion because they believe that first of all, it won't stop there, and secondly, the government is trying to divide society into 'good' and 'bad' groups. You can laugh at people comparing it to Jews in 1933, but although the extremity is vastly different, people feel uneasy about the comparison in patterns with the real and potential treatment of 'good' and 'bad' people.

  • 'Nothing is more permanent than a temporary solution'. The Patriot Act, France's State Of Emergency legislation, the UK's passing of laws restricting forms of protest. Some see Covid as a perfect opportunity for governments to enact wide-reaching legislation that cuts down on personal liberties.

  • The shutdown of 'non essential services' to many feels like gaslighting for "fuck small businesses, let the megacorporations eat everything". While tens of thousands of small diners, manufacturers and general stores were forced to remain closed and go out of business, megacorporations, big chains and otherwise influential services were still allowed to continue. In a sense, some see this as the removal of the right for self governance, as it is now practically unfeasible to have your own business without lines of red tape.

These are some of things I have heard, and are not necessarily my opinions.

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u/FeverDreams86 Dec 07 '21

This should really be higher. It’s a great breakdown of perception and where it is and isn’t meeting reality. Well done! Edit: username on point

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u/ToxicShark3 Dec 07 '21

Best comment. Everything fully presented in a balanced manner

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u/pocketgravel Dec 07 '21

This needs to be the top comment. Spot on.

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u/TheRealPipin Dec 07 '21

Its basically pinning two sides of the same coin. On one end, you have people that are most likely relatively healthy and are worried about govt overreach and individual freedoms being threatened. On the other hand, 700k people have died from Covid and still dying, large amounts of human suffering, because its not as clear cut as you get Covid and if you survive you will be ok, most patients especially if they end up in the ICU will have long term consequences from it. I am a brand new RN in a Covid ICU, so I understand my bias towards relieving human suffering which I have seen so much of these last two years. I just want this to be done…not sure how much I can take without already losing my empathy and being burned out.

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u/jalto95 Dec 06 '21 Silver Take My Energy

Lol, my country (France) had a 6-9 months period of curfews (from 6pm to 11pm depending on the covid's progression). It was a nightmare. I actually prefered a full lockdown. But if you're vaccinated you can pretty much live normally now (except for masks).

Although for unvaccinated people, you can't go to concerts/restaurants/cinemas/museum/amusement parks/access trains and planes etc. You need the sanitary pass, you can get tested with a PCR but it only grants you 24h of freedom, and it's no longer covered by social security (it's about 40bucks every time).

Essentially, they are forcing the vaccination by restricting freedoms. I'm totally pro-vaccine, but I'm very ashamed about the way we treat unvaccinated people over here. Only rich people can afford this choice now.

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u/Ko_Kyaw Dec 06 '21 edited Dec 07 '21

Bro, since 2019, I lost my income completely, Schools are closed and I lost my life plan. Now I'm lost and living without goals. I don't care about (lesser)freedom, Just let me finish my school.

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u/derkaiserV Dec 06 '21

I know that it doesn't help your situation at all, but I want you to know that an Internet stranger is rooting for you.

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u/rae_xo Dec 06 '21 Helpful

As someone who has to travel internationally for business, my freedom to do business as usual has been severely disrupted.

Also, my store was forced to close for an entire month. This was the worst month of my entire families lives (we own a family business). The bills for rent and vendors never stopped coming even though we had zero business for a month and very little business for a while afterwards. Almost 2 years into this pandemic and we still aren’t fully recovered.

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u/Doctor-Whodunnit Dec 06 '21

A family business and a job requiring international travel are not two things I ever would have paired together lol

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u/rae_xo Dec 06 '21

We own a clothing store and most of our brands are Italian and French. We ended up buying the collections via zoom, which is a terrible way to buy clothing to understand the fit, colour and feel. We made a lot of expensive mistakes because of it.

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u/TheGHere Dec 07 '21

In the UK at least, everything non-essential (Basically everything but supermarkets) was forcefully closed for (in total across the multiple lockdowns ) over a year.

People lost their businesses and their jobs, and we weren't allowed to do anything other than stay at home.

Regardless of whether you agree if these measures were nessacary, logical or morally right, they most certainly did make us lose all of our freedom.

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u/captain-vye Dec 07 '21

There was also a period of time where we were told we could only leave the house once a day for exercise (I think for an hour, I could be wrong), other than necessary shopping or essential work. Employers near me had to give out certificates/statements to staff as they were being stopped by police to check if they were "supposed" to be out.

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u/Jekker5 Dec 06 '21 Helpful Wholesome

Depends on the person really. For you there were little to no consequences, for others there were thing like a relative dying without being able to see them one last time. Possibly family in other countries they could not visit because of travel restrictions. Loosing jobs or income as businesses shut down, the list goes on. Just consider yourself lucky that the effects on you personally were minimal.

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u/Thejudojeff Dec 06 '21

Exactly. The restrictions didn't hit everyone equally. A lot of businesses went under. It was literally impossible to travel between some countries for a long time, and still is for some. My family all live in different countries so we haven't seen each other. Also, in some countries you were literally locked in your homes and dragged off to a quarantine camp if you were in the same neighborhood as someone who tested positive. I was in Vietnam for most of it, snd things got pretty scary there for awhile. My friend wasn't allowed to go to the doctor for a rabies shot after he was bit by a dog, because it wasnt considered essential.

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u/Judge_Ty Dec 06 '21

Agree!!

In 2020, my friend was 28 years old with late stage cancer. We were not allowed to see or visit him regardless of mask or vaccine. This was also including his wife and new born son.

This effected him so much that he ended up refusing additional treatment due to isolation and decided to spend his rapidly approaching end at home.

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u/SnowSparow Dec 06 '21

This answer hit home. I lost my uncle to Covid and I never got to see him that one last time. Hadn't seen him in 4 years and was supposed to go visit (he's in a different continent but we were very close) but kept postponing due to travel restrictions.

Was a heavy one. Don't know if I would call it a loss of freedom though.

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u/tangibletom Dec 06 '21 edited Dec 06 '21 Silver Gold Wholesome

Here’s what they mean:

The COVID-19 lockdowns/restrictions/mandates were all authorized by emergency powers. Without an emergency these rules would be illegal. The point of emergency powers is to be able to address an emergency in the time before the legislature has time to make laws addressing the problem.

Here’s the catch: the executive branches are still making emergency rules when the emergency caveat is no longer valid. Legislators have had almost 2 years to do what ever they think necessary. It is no longer an emergency.

Edit: basically the problem is that the executive branch is effectively writing laws taking away the peoples right to self govern

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u/vinetwiner Dec 06 '21

Reminds me how the Patriot Act was only a temporary measure originally, but they keep reenacting it. Like, haven't you had time to solve this shit yet?

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u/yepper06 Dec 07 '21

It was drafted years before 9/11. All we needed was a new “pearl Harbor” to enact it.

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u/Kung_Flu_Master Dec 06 '21

Nothing is more permanent than temporary government power

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u/Big_Brother_is_here Dec 07 '21

‘If human nature and history teach anything, it is that civil liberties face grave risks when governments proclaim indefinite states of emergency. During a pandemic such as this one, it is even more important to safeguard the separation of powers set forth in our Constitution to avoid erosion of our liberties.’ - U.S. - Federal Judge Terry Doughty

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u/Zistac Dec 07 '21

Future history books about the U.S. will have the various doings of the federalist party, the Civil War, the Patriot Act, and Covid-19 measures as some of the main events that led from many enjoying large degrees of sovereignty to a totalitarian state or shadow state.

Sometimes I wish I had the patience to go through my old Reddit comments and say “I told you so.” I had so many arguments about Covid-19 being the next patriot act and got banned from some subs for it. All a history degree will get you today is called an idiot by people who watch the news.

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u/GroundbreakingTry172 Dec 07 '21

Exactly, once the government gains power they never release it. Governments have only ever gotten bigger.

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u/malcolmrey Dec 06 '21
  • in china you have a mandatory app in your phone and if that app shows RED you cannot enter shops and other places
  • some countries have mandatory covid vaccinations, if you're one of the antivaxxers then you're fucked
  • in my country they have banned forests for a while (yes, you were prohibited from going into the forest...)
  • some countries have covid passports and it acts similarly to that chinese app

FYI, i don't care about it, but there are people that do

a friend of mine was outraged several years ago when the government started fighting with burner phones (sim cards that were anonynous)

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u/tjb627 Dec 06 '21

Just curious. Why were forests banned?

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u/eddie1234321 Dec 06 '21

They banned going to beach in Portugal last year too. This was in the winter. You could have socially distanced by about 100 metres!

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u/Mech_Bean Dec 06 '21

Regarding your first point, what would cause their app to turn red?

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u/ptitplouf Dec 06 '21

I guess op's talking about the alipay health code, which shows a green qr code if you don't pose any risk of being infected with covid, and shows a yellow or red qr code if you do. The app tracks everywhere you go, and if you come across someone who's infected with covid, it will alert you and your qr code will turn to yellow. People with a yellow code need to quarantine for a week, people with red code need to quarantine for 14 days.

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u/deep_sea2 Dec 06 '21

The argument is that any time the government and other institutions force people to do anything, that is a violation of freedom. If a store says that you cannot go inside without a mask, that is a loss of freedom. If a job can fire you because you don't have a vaccine, that is a loss of freedom.

This only applies if you assume the premise that people have absolute freedom to begin with, which is a pretty big assumption to make.

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u/m4rkoh Dec 06 '21 Silver

Is it possible that your average American citizen just can't distinguish between rights and privileges?

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u/justsomeplainmeadows Dec 06 '21 All-Seeing Upvote

I think it's more that Americans can't agree on what is a right and what is a privilege.

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u/tkmorgan76 Dec 06 '21 Helpful

"if it affects me, it's a right. If it affects you, it's a privilege."

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u/freerangephoenix Dec 06 '21

I think it's more that Americans have divorced rights from obligations.

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '21 edited Dec 23 '21 Helpful

[deleted]

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u/cookiemanluvsu Dec 07 '21

The whole thing is just a weird hill to die on even if you want to be selfish.

Shit is ridiculous

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u/Mazon_Del Dec 06 '21

As an American this is sadly true.

The number of my fellow citizens that will vehemently argue that the US Constitution is the sum total of ALL rights people have is honestly depressing.

To be clear, this stance of theirs operates in two directions.

  • Direction 1 ('less rights'): The right to own a gun is inviolate and ANY nation that doesn't allow their citizens near-free access to guns is a dystopian hellhole on the verge of outright collapse at any given moment. Any moment now.....any moment...

  • Direction 2 ('more rights'): The UN specifically and I believe several European nations individually has declared access to clean drinking water a human right. Finland added to its constitution that access to high speed internet is a human right. To my fellow Americans that I am referencing, this is MASSIVELY insulting to the very CONCEPT of rights. At the end of the day, ALL of their arguments will boil down to the fact that the US constitution doesn't have a right to such things, and other nations pretending that anything else could possibly be a "right" is an attack on the very concept.

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u/Plusquevie Dec 06 '21

this^ i saw a post about a guy who was pulled over for driving his tesla while asleep at the wheel for like 5 miles and the police towed it and many of the commenters said thats a violation of rights. driving is a privilege not a right, and operating a motor vehicle while asleep in some states is a felony. just because they can drive themselves does not make it legal to do so

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '21

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u/hedronist Dec 06 '21

So you're saying it's time to update the old joke again:

What's the difference between a porcupine and a Porsche BMW Tesla? The porcupine has pricks on the outside.

I don't know if that's true or not. We've been driving Prii since 2001, as have many of our fellow Sebastopudlians. We are seeing a lot more Tesla's around here nowadays, but I think they are refugees from The Peninsula; they certainly drive like they haven't yet been assimilated. In Olden Times, when you moved to Sonoma County you would park your Beemer next to a crossroads with a For Sale sign on it.

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u/Nyxelestia Dec 06 '21

More like there are two types of freedom: freedom to, and freedom from. America is really, really big on the former, whereas a lot of socialized countries are more focused on the latter. Americans also make a really strong distinction between state and private institutions in a way that most other countries don't fixate on so much.

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u/bookant Dec 06 '21

And they've also completely lost the notion that rights also come with responsibilities.

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u/JuanPyro Dec 06 '21

A store has all the right to impose rules. No shirt, no shoes, no service. Their shop, their rules. If you don't like it go to the next shop but I'm sure they'll be doing the same thing.

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u/depreavedindiference Dec 06 '21 edited Dec 06 '21

Yet no one has taken issue with McDonald's stance of No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service.

Supreme Court has already set precedent on this: The Liberty of the individual does not out weigh the Liberty of the rest of the population.

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u/ceruleanohara Dec 06 '21

If a store decides that it’s their rule, that’s just like “no shirt no service.” That’s not infringing on freedom.

When the government tells private business who they are allowed to let into their stores, like “masks required” then it is. When officials can shut down a store/restaurant for non compliance on a mask mandate? That’s some serious overreach.

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u/burglebot Dec 06 '21

You probably feel like you haven’t lost any freedom because you didn’t have the desire or need to not comply to some of those things.

For example, the freedom of choice, like the freedom to CHOOSE whether you get vaccinated or not is being taken away, for example in Austria - the first country to announce obligatory vaccination since February. There are massive protests in Austria at this moment for this very reason.

Perhaps you wouldn’t think this endangers your freedom because you do want to vaccinate yourself.

But people that for any reason don’t want to get vaccinated are having that choice taken away from them.

Also people that advocate for obligatory vaccination by force or ultimatum are not standing up for the freedom of choice.

Idk about your country, but in many countries the stores, supermarkets, restaurants etc. had a limited work time, or were just straight up prohibited to work for a certain amount of time. In some countries, this was against the constitutional law.

Also, prohibiting people to go outside for amount of time regulated by government. Again, against constitutional law. Even children with autism, that have trouble staying in the house for too long, were not allowed to go outside.

If you think that isn’t limiting your freedom, I don’t know what is.

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u/MouthwashInMyEyes Dec 07 '21

This. You can believe everybody should get vaccinated and still be totally against forcing people to get vaccinated, including by ultimatum. Its about the freedom to choose.

Also, it seems that you can't openly voice any of the concerns I see in this thread without being automatically labelled 'anti-vax' and ridiculed on that basis. If you arent in support of more restrictions, more caution, more shutdowns, more power to the government, more whatever, then you're opinion is not valid. That is very disturbing.

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u/AmettOmega Dec 07 '21

I don't feel like I lost freedoms on a citizen level, but I definitely feel like my university took away freedoms/tried to make choices for me as a student.

For example, even though all classes were going to be remote after Thanksgiving break anyways (but actually ended up going remote A LOT sooner), my university "cancelled" fall break and only gave Thanksgiving/the day after off from classes in order to prevent students from traveling and spreading the disease. It felt like an arbitrary exercise of power that didn't have any meaningful impact on the spread of Covid.

Similarly, spring break was also cancelled (again, to supposedly prevent travel and reduce covid spread) and replaced it with "wellness days" which also were arbitrary as some of the wellness days took place on days of the week when most students didn't have classes anyways.

In a way it felt like the university took away much needed time off for mental and physical health in the guise of "stopping travel & the spread of covid" even though I could have traveled anyways since all classes were remote. It just felt like they wanted to try and pretend they could have an impact on the covid spread and really just took away much needed time off from students.

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u/kirsd95 Dec 06 '21

Look at some states of the EU: months when you couldn't go to job because they mandated that only the needed jobs could be done, months when you couldn't go out to walk only if you must, can go to the supermarkets only 1 family member, you have to wear a mask in the middle of the woods while you where alone, couldn't go to the family because they where in another region, couldn't go to school, couldn't do sports, can't go to the funeral, must go alone to see someone at the hospital and you must be a relative and only 1 each week, can't have a decent medical e exam, have to buy a laptop for your children to go to school, have the right to protest restricted, can't meet friends.

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u/Fightlife45 Dec 07 '21

This sub has turned into a political shit show. I missed when it was just people asking dumb questions.

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u/Salt_Life1043 Dec 06 '21

Give the government an inch and they take a mile. They are not our friends

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u/Puzzleheaded_Ad_8170 Dec 06 '21

Those in power are not go to just give people's freedoms back afterwards, like 'oh that was a nice power trip, here's your freedoms back now'. Makes you wonder if we are the true enemy of the state..

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u/ericlarsen2 Dec 06 '21

Anyone who thought the government was your friend before the pandemic just had their eyes opened ...

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u/liam_tubsy Dec 06 '21

Everyone who disagrees with you are probably highly compliant people who’re also easily intimidated by authorities. Of course, I haven’t done the statistical analysis on this, but I think I have strong anecdotal evidence to back this up.

It’s why I cringe when I see people justifying the government invading privacy, restricting movement, shooting protesters, working nefariously with media, list goes on… They will make any excuse for them, it’s sad.

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u/eddie1234321 Dec 06 '21

Last year the Portuguese government banned access to the beaches. This was in January!!! I like to go for a run on the beach, and typically at this time of year there are very few people. A number of dog walkers, fellow runners etc... Easily able to socially distance, with a strong salty wind. That is a loss of freedom that I objected to, and one rule I ignored. The other restriction brought in at the same time was a curfew. So if I was to go on a run on the beach at 11pm, I was breaking the law twice!!! Bonkers... in my opinion at least... unless someone can enlighten me as to the logic in that.

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u/derkaiserV Dec 06 '21

Damn that sucks. Good for you for ignoring them. Ridiculous. In my country at my point it was legal to sit with 6 people in a restaurant without masks, but illegal to be outside alone without a mask. I live 2 km from the next house, needles to say i walked my dog without a mask (without coming close to any other people), which was illegal.

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u/ilikecats4567 Dec 06 '21

Being in lockdown takes away my freedom from seeing my family.. Or buying essentials. I have a growing baby and for a long time was unable to buy bigger clothes for her because my province made it illegal to purchase anything they considered to be non-essential. Or even clothes for myself being postpartum. Just because your life didn’t change, doesn’t mean others weren’t impacted by this.

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u/_SuperChefBobbyFlay_ Dec 07 '21 Silver Wholesome

off the top of my head

-The right to self-ownership/bodily autonomy

-The right to free association

-The right to free trade

-The right to free travel in public

-The right to medical privacy

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u/Thejudojeff Dec 06 '21 edited Dec 07 '21 Silver Gold

How lucky for you that your job wasn't affected. It must be really nice to still be able to see all the people you care about. It's wonderful that you didn't lose a business that you spent your whole life building up, or be forced out of a home you can no longer pay for. Kudos to you for keeping your sanity while being stuck in a studio apartment alone for months at a time. It's fantastic that you don't live in a country that forces you into a quarantine camp because a person two blocks over tested positive. How fortunate you are to have all your family living together in the same country.

All this thread shows me is that people have zero empathy for people that don't align with them politically. (I'm fully vaxxed, btw. But I'm not against seeing things from other people's points of view)

Edit** This came off as a little more aggressive than i intended. But it's frustrating when i hear people refer to other people's problems as "just financial stuff" or "whining." Dismissing the problems that other people are facing does not bring us any closer together. Neither does calling people stupid. I want you to get vaccinated. I want you to make that choice. But i think it should be your choice. If we force this through it's gonna open up some bad stuff.

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u/RedPetrichor Dec 07 '21

Exactly, and yet people never miss a beat when it’s about calling others “selfish” and auto congratulating themselves for their selfless acts of staying inside

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u/spacepbandjsandwich Dec 07 '21

This isn't political in the sense of right vs. left. The government's response to this ongoing pandemic has been a massive failure of public policy. Non essential businesses should have been closed, but they also should have been supported monetarily. There should have been rent and utility waivers all around.

We have a government to protect the citizenry and coordinate over this vast nation. The government has been completely ineffective at that

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u/Happy-College4968 Dec 07 '21

Wait, what did your country (assuming you are from the US) do to combat covid? Here in Taiwan we are already masked before Covid and quarantined when sick. Vaccine arrived late but most of us complied so we don't get others sick.

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u/languagelover17 Dec 06 '21

Spot on. Well said.

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u/VintageGenious Dec 06 '21
  • Freedom of movement (curfew, country borders rules, quarantine)
  • Feedom of protest
  • Freedom of assembly (in some countries you could'nt see more than a few friends)
  • Bodily autonomy and freedom of expression (i'm talking about the vaccine and mask: in some countries they were mandatory)
  • Freedom of business (forced closure of shops resulting in big loss of income)

Most of those would be considered fundamental freedoms

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u/The_Iron_Eco Dec 06 '21

Even if you agree with everything the governments did, you have to accept that freedoms were restricted.

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u/yepper06 Dec 07 '21 edited Dec 07 '21

It blows my mind how awful just about every country handled the pandemic. There is not one I can point to that did anything an effective government should have. Right at the onset they should have decided whether they wanted to eliminate the virus or control spread or do nothing. Mix and matching is dumb and wasteful.

I should mention New Zealand did great but they have an island advantage.

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u/Happy-College4968 Dec 07 '21

My friends in Finland said there country did great. As well as here in Taiwan did great as well.

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u/NorthernImmigrant Dec 07 '21

Just over a month ago here in Canada I wasn't allowed anyone in my home that didn't live here.

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u/solfire1 Dec 06 '21

In some countries like Australia, there are some pretty severe restrictions on movement and mobility. For instance, Australians are not allowed to go into a new territory without quarantining for a period of time.

Covid restrictions aren’t as bad in the USA depending on where you live. Mandatory masking is an annoyance to many as well. I find it interesting that people now believe that walking around without a mask should be considered a privilege.

Then of course there is the limitation to how many people can be inside of a building at a time, especially at official events where these rules are mandatory. But if I’m not mistaken, some countries like Australia actually put rules into place that restrict how many people you can be with indoors on private property.

Then we move onto the vaccine which is restricting people quite a bit. If you don’t get the vaccine, you’re extremely limited in what jobs you can get and you may be at risk of losing the job you currently have. You also may not be able to go to restaurants, bars, movie theaters, comedy clubs, and music events if you live in places like LA and NY in the states and other countries of the world.

There’s also the concern of these types of restrictions being normalized so that more overbearing restrictions would be tolerated in the future.

This is why many libertarian-minded individuals take issue with these restrictions and would like to nip them in the bud to avoid the possibility that they get worse in the future.

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u/lilseraphym Dec 07 '21

i was unable to celebrate Christmas with my family last year because they locked down literally a week before and even mocked that ‘Christmas is cancelled this year’. it genuinely put me in a suicidal state because i hadn’t seen my family since near the beginning of the pandemic.

i also have had a lot of joint pain recently and am unable to see a doctor about it because they will only see people who are literally on their deathbed or the elderly. im told i just have to suck up the pain but sometimes i can’t even walk because one of my ankles will start hurting so bad that i can’t put pressure on it. but doctors refuse to see me in person and didn’t even show up to my booked telephone appointment. healthcare has simply become a nightmare.

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u/Dunkpink Dec 06 '21

I don't know where you're from, but I can tell you that in the UK, the emergency coronavirus legislation made it easier to commit a person to a mental health ward or institution, which is potentially problematic for obvious reasons.

I'm sure there was similar policy regarding the police and reduced grounds for arrest, but I can't verify that as the legislation came to an end in July this year and is no longer visible on the official website.

I suppose more generally than that, individuals around the world who don't appreciate being told what to do weren't pleased about the rhetoric more than anything. The notion of authority will always rub a certain number of people up the wrong way.

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u/fran_smuck251 Dec 06 '21

in the UK, the emergency coronavirus legislation made it easier to commit a person to a mental health ward or institution

Wait what? They kept that one quiet!

Can you elaborate on what exactly changed? I live in the UK but never heard of this...

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u/Big_Brother_is_here Dec 06 '21

Right to protest, freedom to travel, police can stop anyone anywhere without probable cause, freedom to choose whether we want the vaccine or not because in practice life is impossible without it, freedom to earn an honest living if you are in a business that has been banned for close to two years, freedom to visit my sick relatives in a hospitals or clinic, I could go on.

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u/Rumplfrskn Dec 07 '21

We didn’t lose anything but the crumbles of respect we still had from the rest of the world.

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u/CentipedeEater Dec 07 '21

after 10 pm i cant leave the house until 5 am unless im vaxxed

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u/SalisburySteakisLife Dec 07 '21

Where do you live? I haven't heard of anything like this.

And what exactly is this supposed to accomplish? What do the hours between 10 and 5 have to do with anything?

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u/_Iconoclast__ Dec 07 '21

Duh, everyone knows COVID is only infectious between the hours of 10pm and 5am!

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u/kentacova Dec 06 '21

Not being able to visit my father while he was undergoing radiation treatment for cancer sucked unbelievably. Not being able to work for a whole year sucked unbelievably. Having to hear about friends who lost loved ones they weren’t able to say goodbye to sucks unbelievably. Watching the bureaucratic blunder that handled this mess sucked unbelievably.

And the fact, above ALL and EVERYTHING ELSE is that pandemics are NOT new. The study of virology is NOT NEW. I imagine we as a race have spent more money putting rockets into space than we have invested in proper procedure to react to a viral outbreak of this nature. And it’s not like we didn’t have warning shots, we’ve had past epidemics and pandemics.

To put context into an analogy: imagine the United States having come under siege multiple times and developed a defense system of little size more than a few boats, a plane or 2, maybe a handful of guys that can shoot a gun or scare somebody and then called it a day.

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u/Happy-College4968 Dec 07 '21

Not seeing your father is rough, however when you are radiation treatment you are highly perceptible to illness, so it was for the best.

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u/MelonPan94 Dec 07 '21

In Japan nothing, just look to Europe: can't enter anywhere without a proof that you are vaccinated/ had covid. (Unless it's for the basice needs)

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u/Problemwizard Dec 07 '21 edited Dec 07 '21

Some of these are just consequences of the pandemic, not "rights" as such, but some of it is very clearly because "this is not the priority now".

I don't think I saw anyone say this, but many women lost their way to abortion and bodily autonomy with border restrictions, many gay people can't see each other because they love from a distance and can't marry, and many people of all genders and different bonds to them are stuck with their abusers. Many can not altogether escape their oppressive regimes - it was hard before, now it's impossible in so many places.

Many people lost the right to medical care that prevents them from dropping down dead in the future - if the situation is just about to be that bad without help, in many countries, that is still counted as not sick enough. (in places where it is actually a right, not the hell hole that the US is ofc)

Here in my country, ADHD meds and antidepressants were in delivery difficulties for a while. There is only a single medication of the NDRI class - and depressed people had to switch to medication that doesn't help them, because that was not available.

These are not arguments against vaccination, as you can see. They are arguments FOR IT, globally, so that there is less of an excuse to give for restrictions like that on our lives.

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u/WoodNotBang Dec 06 '21

How about the freedom to go work from and meet clients in the office which allows me to make money. Really hard to do my job over zoom or email and if the government says no working from the office what am I supposed to do?

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u/GothicGorilla Dec 07 '21

The right to live my life. It's gone simply because I'm unable to medically comply with the restrictions.

My allergies are kind of unique and in this case during the pandemic, makes it very hard for me to live. I have yet to find a mask that I can wear without having a massive reaction to it. Vaccines are also on my allergy list, thanks to a nasty reaction I had several years ago (and yes, I've considered getting the covid one anyway but frankly it's not worth the risk of a reaction to the vaccine on top of a reaction to the needle and a possible reaction to the cleaning solution, band-aid, and gloves, if the tech doesn't listen to my allergy list).

So I can't mask and I'm unvaccinated. In my state, that means I'm not allowed to work. There's limited access to stores (groceries, clothes, shoes, etc.), no hospital access (no primary, no specialists, no emergency room--and yes, I've been told this by local doctors), no college (my program doesn't work well online)...

I could probably come up with more but that's the big stuff. I'm expected to stay at home, pay my bills without working, and wait.

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