r/DotA2 Oct 20 '21 Hugz 1

Richard Lewis: Dota, Reddit And Frankie Derangement Syndrome Video | Esports

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOLZOR3Amhg
59 Upvotes

64

u/2mad2die Oct 20 '21

If someone watches this, I'd appreciate a tl; dw

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u/ChKOzone_ Oct 20 '21 All-Seeing Upvote

Haven't watched this video, but I watched the stream.

Richard essentially lists a lot of very valid concerns regarding the Dota community in general, largest of them being a huge sense of entitlement. Goes through the over-reaction to Frankie's interview of Silent, even though she clearly had to cut it early as the game had already begun, as well as other crazy reactions to talent during the course of TI10.

Definitely worth a watch.

252

u/CynicalSadboi Oct 20 '21 Helpful

My big problem with this is it seems like he didn't really watch the entire tournament. He blames misogyny as the reason people don't like Frankie but it's just not true. Dota players love and respect Sheever and Ephey just as much as they do any person in the talent community. They like when the talent are clearly passionate about the game and community. They don't like when someone hired for the event can't even get the names of the teams correctly because she doesn't have any stake in the game. His entire viewpoint was extremely one dimensional on the reason people are upset about Frankie hosting when there are many more qualified individuals to do it.

49

u/Ultraballer Oct 20 '21

The one thing I loved most about this and previous ti’s is the knowledge you get from seeing pros and former pros casting and commenting on drafts and such, so when I had to watch Frankie asking questions like “do you think qops blink ability is bad because you can just buy a blink dagger” while hosting the main panel for group stages, it was pretty disappointing. I recognize that being a host is a different skill than being an analyst or caster and definitely doesn’t require as much dota knowledge as you should be using your cocast for that, but I feel that having someone who actually plays the game means you get better questions asked to the panel. Sheever is a great example of someone who is not a pro player by any means, but is good enough and dedicated enough to be an amazing host.

Is there criticism of Frankie because of totally illegitimate and sexist reasons? Absolutely. But I think it’s also important to recognize that there is also very valid criticism of Frankie that doesn’t come from a bad place. I also don’t really blame Frankie. She got hired to work a really sweet gig for I’m sure a lot of money and she put some good effort into trying to learn the game, I just think valve should try to hire people from the dota scene.

27

u/asstalos Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

Sheever is a great example of someone who is not a pro player by any means, but is good enough and dedicated enough to be an amazing host.

I spent some time thinking about what exactly made Sheever and Ephey click well on stage versus Frankie, Sumichu, and Avo, and when it came down to it, none of the latter group really have the same shared experience of Dota2 that the former does, and lacking this demonstrated heavily in their presence.

What I mean by this is, in general, everyone who has played a lot of Dota2 working as talent may not necessarily be pros or incredibly good at the game, but have at some point experienced the same highs and lows with the game as everyone else did. Sheever knows how it feels to be ahead in a game and then suddenly it slips away due to one bad teamfight and no buybacks. Same with Ephey. This can happen on the main stage and both of them know exactly how it feels, and when interacting with others on the panel, everyone is on the same page when discussing the game's outcome here due to that shared experience.

Avo though? Maybe he's experienced something similar, but it isn't quite the same, and lacking that shared experience makes it really difficult to emphasize and to do good work. A team just got eliminated and now he's tasked with interviewing them. Thrown into the shark pool, really, having had little to no interaction with any of these teams' players in any significant fashion before, having had little experience with the game itself as the players have experienced it, and struggling to figure out what to do and looking back at how it was done in the past to grow in this role over the course of the event. How do you get a good response out of someone who just got eliminated in a game that felt particularly bad to play if you've never experienced a comparable situation in that same game?

Sumichu? An immense turn around due to ballsy skill usage or an incredible item pick-up can happen on the main stage and every panelist recognizes just how significant it is because they have all their past games and experiences to draw on to evaluate what just happened. For the outsider looking in, it is much harder to get on the same wavelength. Panelists would be awestruck at the insanity of buying a Diffusal on Gyro to counter Bristle; the newer hosts should (at bare minimum) describe what Diffusal does and why it hurts Bristle's ability to be effective, but wouldn't be able to communicate how such a pick-up changes both the game state and mental state of the teams involved, something Sheever and Ephey are definitely able to.

This is the same problem whenever we had new names in Dota2 events, mostly people invited who can spend as much time as they want building as much domain knowledge as they can in the lead up, but without that same shared experience makes it very challenging. For an event that is as much a competition as it is about celebrating the best of Dota2, it's a bit disappointing to have talent hosts who don't quite grasp what the celebration is actually about. The scrutiny is much higher at TI.

We have had exceptions in the past, of course.

9

u/Fyller Oct 20 '21

I think there is some merit to the fact that you need more knowledge about the game in order to ask decent questions. If you have to spend the entire time trying to avoid that you don't know anything, that's not exactly a good thing. And let's be honest, cs-go and Dota are very different games, they're both excellent games, but cs is a lot more intuitive. Anyone can sit down and watch it with very little prep, it's literally just two groups of 5 shooting at each other. I used to play at a fairly high level back in the day in original cs, and I'm not trying to say that cs is easier than dota. Both games take a ton of practice, but skill is measured in very different ways. My girlfriend can sit down and watch cs and have a pretty decent understanding in like 5 minutes, the terrorists are trying to plant a bomb, and the other guys are trying to stop them. Most complexity comes from timing and grenades in cs-go, and the rest is mechanical skill. I've been with my gf for like 12 years now, and I've played dota since around TI1, and she still doesn't really know how it works other than some basics. Dota is 90% a game of knowledge and experience, so if you don't have those two things, it's significantly harder to participate in a conversation. And I completely disagree with Lewis that it is unimportant to know about the game. I didn't post anything about Frankie, and I didn't have a big problem with her, I mostly care about the games. But it was abundantly clear that she was very underprepared. So many of her questions and her input was just stabbing in the dark, trying to get at something, and didn't result in any meaningful conversation. I don't know if she had too little time to prepare or what it was, but it was not good, and it had nothing to do with her gender or pregnancy or whatever, it was just very clear that she was struggling to know what was relevant and what wasn't. Also bringing up a bunch of stats that she didn't really know what to do with, and often turning out to be kind of irrelevant because of the nature of the game. Anyway, I wouldn't mind her doing more events, and I'm sure she would start to pick up on a lot of things, but I'm not sure it's really a good idea to start on the biggest stage in the game.

43

u/pp3088 Oct 20 '21

Do you remember Kaci?

Everybody loved her. She did not have a single idea about dota but was respectful and clearly passionate.

And she did not try to appear as some expert.

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u/asstalos Oct 21 '21

Kaci was unafraid of looking like an absolute fool on camera, and had enough experience to be capable of mirroring, reflecting, and playing off the reactions of the people she interacted with. Most critically though, my recollection is she was never a host on a panel at all, or for any extended period of time, and her primary job throughout the event was content creation, working with Slacks, and interviewing players and others.

I think her first appearance at TI she definitely came across as not really knowing what's up, but her subsequent experiences showed she has done a significant amount of research, particularly in when she interviews players, and throughout her experiences has gained a rapport with the players in general.

Her first appearance at TI was also a bit rocky as she was finding her footing in an environment she was quite foreign too.

10

u/R12SH Oct 21 '21 edited Oct 21 '21

I really missed kaci this TI, and her absence made me appreciate her even more. She is absolutely amazing in her players interviews and you could see her research in the questions she asks. Serious questions, playful questions she got it all. Even when players are not fluent in English they easily warm up to her and she is able to hold a conversation.

Just watch her talk to abed about pets and compare that to any other interviewer in dota, she somehow make these guys seem humane.

7

u/Ultraballer Oct 21 '21

Kaci also had a very different role. She came in as the crowd outreach/meme with slacks person and was never expected to talk about dota really.

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u/Phunwithscissors Oct 21 '21

Or make stupid jokes or praise herself 5 times per day

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u/48911150 Oct 21 '21

Not everyone loved her from the start tho. She got some “hate” as well early on

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u/C00ke1896 Oct 20 '21

I really felt bad for Sumichu at times, especially after the talent/allstar games. Basically after the first game there was criticism that Slacks was hilarious and all that stuff while she was rather down to earth (the actual words used were a lot less nice). After having seen the post match interview of the second talent game I am 100% that she read the criticism or someone told her about it. She tried acting it all up and imo this resulted in a way worse interview. Not everyone can have Slacks natural and energy and all of the talents would have struggled beneath him (except maybe Lacoste). I think she handled the first pre and post match interviews totally fine with just being more of her natural self and I am sorry that she felt forced to change her identity for the other day.

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u/Godisme2 Oct 20 '21 All-Seeing Upvote

Dota players love and respect Sheever and Ephey just as much as they do any person in the talent community

A lot of people are quite vocal about their hatred of Ephey purely because she has a high pitched voice. Saw one guy who said she shouldn't be invited to anything because she sounds like a porn star and it makes him uncomfortable.

Sheever on the other hand was the most hated dota talent in the early days of dota 2. If a game was being cast by Sheever, there'd be multiple top voted reddit threads about how bad she was and how they had to tune out or mute the stream

Then we have every other woman who has tried entering the scene: Moxxi gets shit on constantly and its basically the same as when Sheever started out, Annedroid got the same treatment, lots of complaints about Sumichu and how valve needs to stop hiring people who aren't from the dota scene etc.

So yeah, the dota community is still fairly misogynistic.

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u/VeryIllRedditUsers Oct 20 '21

Good to see someone with a memory.

67

u/EGG_BABE Daddy Underlord Oct 20 '21

Yeah it took YEARS of Sheever casting for her to not be absolutely hated. Frankie wasn't the best host we've ever had at TI but pretending that fucking Dota 2 of all things is a place free of sexism and has been a welcoming haven for women for the past decade now is truly laughable

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u/Kumadori012 Oct 20 '21

Sheever was a bad caster though. She found her place as a host and panelist, and she does that job perfectly, I wouldn't want anyone else to be honest.

Stop pretending that sexism is the sole reason for everything, when it's a small portion of morons that say they are bad because they are women. People reacted to Avo+ having bad post-match interviews as well, but there aren't people flying to his defense in the same way as the female counterparts.

Sometimes people doesn't fit the position, and sometimes they need more practice.

10

u/EGG_BABE Daddy Underlord Oct 20 '21

I'm specifically not saying that sexism is the sole reason for everything, I'm saying people are pretending that all criticism of the women of Dota is completely objective, which is obviously silly. I didn't see most of Avo's interviews but the ones I saw also seemed to be blown wildly out of proportion by reddit freaking out because he didn't do the interviews how they wanted

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u/Kumadori012 Oct 20 '21

But much of the criticism I saw was warrented, although subjective. Frankie and Sumi were not good hosts by my count, and that has nothing with them being women. Avo+ was getting his asshole ripped, and had improvments to make, but didn't get the support Frankie and Sumi did.

I'm perfectly aware that the community is rather hostile towards women, but that doesn't mean most criticism is not objective.

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u/pp3088 Oct 20 '21

Many people complained about Treant/Lyrical, heck a lot of compaliners switched to Russian channel because of their commentaries.

YET NOBODY MADE A THREAD defending them. :<

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u/Kumadori012 Oct 20 '21

Is it hatred to find a voice annoying? I mean, yea that guy you mention was an asshole, but the other point is a valid personal criticism on their part.

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u/Select-Cucumber9024 Oct 20 '21

especially when the job is to literally be a "voice" during the broadcast, i feel that same way about slacks

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u/Kumadori012 Oct 20 '21

Slacks is too much for me, mostly.

His random stuff is muted for me, but he did well when he sat on panel.

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u/vierolyn Oct 20 '21

If a game was being cast by Sheever, there'd be multiple top voted reddit threads about how bad she was and how they had to tune out or mute the stream

Already forgot this thread?

"Lyrical Trent wtf"
"I dislike Lyrical so much. So boring, so repetitive."
"And this is why we watch the gorp stream"
"Yeah i hate switching casters, ill be watching gorp stream i reckon"
"This combo looks totally meh to me. Remove Lyrical and Trent from this."
"Trent for a final?` NooOooooo"
"I would rather listen to the grand finals in deafening silence than listen to Trent and Lyrical cast together"

Should I continue?

Should we pull up the Day9 hosting skill threads? The Lumi casting threads? "Sniff sniff" comments about Zyori? About Kotlguy's casting?

The dota community is an asshole to almost every public newcomer.

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u/Ptricky17 Oct 20 '21

I had actually forgotten that this was the case with Sheever early on since she is so beloved now but you’re absolutely right on that count.

I personally don’t mind Moxxi. She’s not my favorite but she’s around the same level as Trent/Lyrical and many of the other b-tier casters which I don’t have a problem with. She works hard and is clearly passionate about the game. It actually does annoy me a little bit how much hate gets thrown her way.

With Frankie though, I really just felt like waltzed in unprepared and tried to be the face of TI without “earning it”. It has nothing to do with her gender. If she wants to be involved in DoTA, she could have come in as an interviewer during DPC. Maybe co-hosted a major or something, and eventually worked her way up to TI. Dropping her into TI right off the bat was a poor decision by Valve. TI is very special to the DoTA community and with so many deserving talents getting left out in the cold as it is, bringing in someone who hasn’t done anything to contribute to the community beforehand is just not going to be received well.

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u/MrNewVegas123 Behold your one true king Oct 21 '21

Yes, Moxxi is given far more hate than she deserves. On a technical level she almost never flubs a line and knows exactly how to escalate volume. I noticed more messups during the (honestly amazing in every other way) cast of Synderen and Sunsfan. I remember one fight in particular that Synd and Sunsfan did not cast at all from a technical level, Moxxi never does that.

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u/FlagrantlyChill Oct 20 '21

But Kaci showed up and had an appreciation thread 2 days after her debut. When a talent is good there isn't an issue. When the talent is not that good and female the criticism has a sexist component and the defenders have an anti sexist component as well.

So yes the dota 2 community is sexist, but is it more sexist than any other slice of gamers or society with these demographics? I am not sure.

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u/deanrihpee Oct 21 '21

I think every game community can be and probably will be sexist and misogynistic unless they're Pong Community.

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u/KardelSharpeyes Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

People saying Valve shouldn't hire from outside the Dota community is not misogynistic, give me a break. I see lots of support around here for Moxxi, Ephey and Sheever. As soon as anyone criticizes a female talent they get accused of being a misogynist, its ridiculous.

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u/brianbezn I'd still have my TL flair but i have to move on Oct 20 '21

Imagine using Sheever as an example of the dota community not being sexist. I'm sure she also forgot about all the shit this community put her through.

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u/eSteamation That's intentional. Oct 20 '21

You can search "worst caster" in this subreddit and you will find tons of threads about basically everyone, even prominent casters.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

Everybody gets shit. Stop pretending it's only women who get nasty messages from the neckbeards and DotA purists that roll through the scene with cheeto dust in their beard.

When KillerPigeon was casting on Twitch, the chat was full of demeaning messages telling him to STFU, that they hated his voice, doubting his talent, spamming "ResidentSleeper" and other stuff. Do you shed tears for KillerPigeon and defend him like he's a special breed of human too?

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u/timematoom ๋Jabz ma boy! GL sheever! Oct 20 '21

Or you can search Cap and see how much shit community put on him, or Trent, or Kyle, or Lyrical, or almost everyone. So does that mean we are sexist toward males too?

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u/vierolyn Oct 20 '21

If the community was misogynistic the community would still hate Sheever.

Sheever was a shit caster when she started. She put in the work by taking voice/speaking lessons. She improved. She went from casting to hosting.
The community loves Sheever now.

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u/KardelSharpeyes Oct 20 '21

Every new talent gets criticized in every community, not just esports, people are resistant to change, they liked what they were familiar with. It has nothing to do with being a man or a woman, look at the criticism Avo got this year, no one is talking about that. People hate on Pyrion every year, no one gives a shit. You're just virtue signaling, give it a rest.

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u/KardigG Oct 20 '21

A lot of people are quite vocal about their hatred of Ephey purely because she has a high pitched voice.

So it wasn't because she is a woman, but because of her voice. People (including me) had or still have the same problem with Slacks. When I found out that he will be doing dota stuff I just got mad.

So your argument is invalid.

Sheever on the other hand was the most hated dota talent in the early days of dota 2

Coz she wasn't as good as other talents, she got better now. The same with Moxxi and Annedroid, but Moxxi is getting good and Annedroid was just straight annoying to listen.

Idk about Sumichu, but dota community generally doesn't like when someone from outside the scene gets hired. Machine got the same hate after his first event as a host. Then we had Grant who had the same amount of haters as supporters even though he was an insider. Even LD used to get a lot of hate here on reddit.

Most of your post looks like you just want the dota community to be misogynistic.

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u/Tots_Legal_Immigrant BLINK DAGGER YAAAAAAH Oct 20 '21

"There is no problem, it just so happen that everyone hated here are women"

Lots of people hated Slacks but nobody told him he reminds them of porn.

Annedroid was a great caster, i don't know what the fuck are you on about.

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u/Kumadori012 Oct 20 '21

One guy said that. One guy.

And thanks, now I imagined Slacks with a porn-stache.

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u/pp3088 Oct 20 '21

Treant and Lyrical got ripped by many peoples "not worthy of TI final" was the nices.

People hated on slacks.

Avo+ got more hate than Tinker.

Seriously?

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u/eSteamation That's intentional. Oct 20 '21

Annedroid was a great caster, i don't know what the fuck are you on about.

No, she wasn't.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

Lots of people hated Slacks but nobody told him he reminds them of porn.

Because he's not hot? Lizzard is pure gacchi.

Annedroid was a great caster, i don't know what the fuck are you on about.

Wow, seems like opinions are subject. Who would've thought?

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u/KardigG Oct 20 '21

Lots of people hated Slacks but nobody told him he reminds them of porn.

I'm sure that he got the same level of hate posts about his voice.

but nobody told him he reminds them of porn.

Annedroid was a great caster, i don't know what the fuck are you on about.

Idk, its just your opinion man. And also calm down.

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u/Godisme2 Oct 20 '21

I don't want the dota community to be misogynistic, but there is no denying that it is to at least some degree.

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u/KardigG Oct 20 '21

I'll rephrase that for you - "Some people in dota community are misogynistic".

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u/bornhat Oct 20 '21

Dota players love and respect Sheever and Ephey just as much as they do any person in the talent community.

weren't people complaining that Ephey got invited to TI?

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u/everythings_alright Oct 20 '21

Pretty sure you could find someone complaining about literally every single person.

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u/GodTierCharacter Oct 20 '21

Yeah, I mean look at that u/everythings_alright dude. Can't believe he said that. smh

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u/CynicalSadboi Oct 20 '21

They were, but not because they don't like Ephey. They were complaining that she had only done one major and was invited to TI when there were people who casted the entire qualifiers every day and weren't.

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u/thisposterisawful Oct 20 '21

Some people were, but it was just because Ephey hasn't been around for that long (in a very visible fashion). IMO Ephey did a really good job at TI even though I hadn't heard of her before the Animajor.

I can't speak for others, but I personally dislike Richard Lewis, so seeing him use his platform to get offended on behalf of others just sounds like he wants to use this as an excuse to attack a community he doesn't like.

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u/JimothyC Oct 20 '21

They also complained about her performance and attendance at Animajor

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u/mantism MY CARAPACE HARDENS Oct 20 '21

everyone complains about everything on the internet. when you laser focus on the negativity and take it as the mainstream opinion, I say that's on you.

But there's reasons why Frankie got such a polarizing reaction vs Ephey, despite their similar screentime (Ephey is practically a newcomer, having started only at Animajor). Clearly people didn't like Frankie's style for a variety of reasons.

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u/KardelSharpeyes Oct 20 '21

FYI people can be critical of a talent, doesn't make them a misogynist.

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u/igorcl Sheever s2 Oct 20 '21

I'm glad she did, she is knowledge of the game, good comments about the draft and matches results, high mmr woman to inspire more women to play and seems very pleasant to work too, but nobody can deny the fact her professional career was really short, from her first big dota gig to TI. This was her 4 th big event

We have a lot of community members who have been working hard all those years and still not invited to the biggest event of the year, they get very sad and frustrated. The world is harsh

But she is well suited for this job, I'm big fan, still hoping to see her in more events through the years

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

So what? I turned off the sound when she started talking. It's not because she's a girl, it's because she sounds like she's talking to herself or trying to do ASMR. Moxxi makes herself heard and I like listening to her casts, but Ephey? Nah. I don't like ASMR.

Criticism towards somebody that happens to be a woman doesn't immediately mean "it's because she's a woman".

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u/idontevencarewutever Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

This is exactly why I'm listening to Richard's take with a grain of salt. He has every right to defend Frankie, but to paint the community with such a black coat of misogyny when a majority of the complaints was about that one slip up. I myself never minded that too much, other than thought it was just a bit disrespectful in the moment. But that's fucking it. Moved on. Done. Mistakes happen. She slipped up and said "didn't care about draft", instead of "money". What's important is they acknowledge it and learn from it. Is he also going to ignore the fact that Avo got WAY more shit than she did?

Is he really so daft as to think we just hate for the sake of it, like some kind of morally fucktarded hiveminded? Does it look like, for example, an overwhelming majority of this sub wants GrandGrant and Tobi to reprise their "meritorious talented Dotaness" despite their disgusting misdeeds? I get that he's rightfully mad for the undeserved overreaction he received in the past, but if he's still using that as his barometer for judging this community as a whole... then it's no different than the minority at large being petty about that one subpar Frankie interview, no? And if that's all is on his mind, he clearly didn't watch the tournament enough to weigh in on the defense.

And I want to make it clear, I don't hate RLewis at all for this take. He's made his statement in his defense, and I disagree with it and find it lacking the heavy context that's littered across the broadcast. He's done a lot for esports, but this one's not a very informed take. And for what it's worth, yes the community at large still has a LONG WAYS to go in giving actual good criticism instead of defaulting to misogyny. There's still a hefty amount of immature manchildren in the community, not gonna skirt around the fact.

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u/PUPcsgo Oct 20 '21

A bunch of the comments he reads through are outright misogynistic talking about how it must be because she’s just a silly pregnant woman, that she was hired because she’s a woman, she’s a “diversity hire” (and even that she’s a diversity hire but they don’t know “which box she’s checking”). But sure no problem with misogyny within the community I guess

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u/idontevencarewutever Oct 20 '21

And you think everyone supported that shit? It's social media; loud minorities will always be given a voice. Nobody who's actually sane would even bother to check the thread. It was also the grand fucking finals day. Everyone else is tuning in the game at that point???? What kind of dumbass would join a hate thread instead of watch the actual match at the time? This just sounds mentally unsound to anyone who's a Dota fan.

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u/PUPcsgo Oct 20 '21

No one said everyone agrees. But if you have a bunch of vocal people saying that and no one calling them out then there’s obviously a problem within the community. If that doesn’t apply to you and you feel you do your part to get rid of it then there’s no need to get defensive.

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u/idontevencarewutever Oct 20 '21

I'm not defensive, more like astounded. Anyone who'd even entertain that thread either have zero interest in the game at all (like, Dota in general) or is not right in the head. The timing makes zero sense to me.

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u/PUPcsgo Oct 20 '21

You’re right, no one would ever casually scroll Reddit in downtime etc. My bad.

Let’s not look at the number of upvotes as an indicator of how many people were interacting with that post

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u/idontevencarewutever Oct 20 '21

Bruh no offense or anything but you sound like you didn't watch TI at all, or didn't catch it live. Everyone who has even an inkling of interest in Dota understands how important that match was.

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u/AudacityOfKappa Venge is my waifu Oct 20 '21

Bunch of vocal people in the community

Literal reddit nobodies

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u/VeryIllRedditUsers Oct 20 '21

Why weren't people like you replying to them and downvoting them if you saw them?

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u/TokiToki1500 Oct 20 '21

But she was hired because of diversity? No need to try and lie about it. There are much better hosts out there, available for TI but they wanted a female one and that's called a diversity hire.

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u/Sttarrk Oct 20 '21

Dota players love and respect Sheever and Ephey just as much as they do any person in the talent community

Llamadownunder

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u/BlinkReanimated Oct 20 '21

Dota players love and respect Sheever

The community bitched about Sheever non-stop until she was diagnosed with cancer. Ephey is too new to really perceive the overall community reaction, but wait until she asks a stupid question(everyone eventually does), the men get turned into a meme(Kyle is the perfect example), the women get criticised.

There's a reason why English DotA has like 2 resident women, Sheever and Kaci. It's not because the community is extremely accepting and inviting.

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u/TheUHO Oct 20 '21

I haven't watched his video, but what was going on on reddit is an utter disgust. There was a thread about Frankie every other day. This sub even started banning people.

She wasn't ideal, but Valve hired her, and I'd take the job too. Maybe was a bit too hard especially in her conditions, but then again, we're in a space where talent have to move whatever the cost is. I think it's better to ask her colleagues about her work ethics. She's doing fantasic in CS:GO. You can't throw away opportunities. And yeah, Sometimes when you're pregnant your brain functions differently. But it's something way out of reach for this community.

And I remember that shit was with EVERY talent. I remember endless threads about moxxi, I remember Kaci's frist TI, hate to Sheever, hate towards slacks or sansfan.

Don't get me wrong, it's fine to criticize Valve but guess who suffered the most in the end. And it's fine to bash on some talent but not like this.

because she doesn't have any stake in the game.

She has. And these stakes are much higher. Especially when you're a freelance with a child.

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u/kubat313 Oct 20 '21

While i agree with that, i just generally dont like talent from other games to come instantly to TI, maybe after 1-2 normal events.

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u/Kaldricus Closet EG Fangay Sheever Oct 20 '21

Nah, I'm not giving this guy a view. He doesn't know anything about the scene, he shows up around TI to piggyback on the hype to try and interject his views into a game and scene he knows nothing about just for clicks. He deserves nothing.

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u/furrygiblets Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

TLDR: The Dota community is the worst thing about Dota.

Which is absolutely correct.

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u/pnmibra77 Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

yeah, all the points he make are true just a bit overexaggerated in some points (like diretide for ex), but about Frankie yeah, 100% right. the comments where so sad to read lmao this sub is infested with incels sadly

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u/Salt_Concentrate Oct 20 '21

What's an exaggeration about diretide? The obama stuff is silly and it doesn't matter, but the volvo and cyborgmatt thing were the worst aspects of it and it definitely happened?

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u/MegaMugabe21 Oct 20 '21

Honestly people are tripping over themselves here to say that there isn't a misogyny problem in the Dota community, or that it's way overblown. I think people see statements about the community being bad and take it personally. If you think Dota doesn't have a misogyny problem, I don't know what to tell you.

There are valid criticisms of Frankie, but it really isn't a stretch to think she got attacked because she's a woman in some cases.

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u/sillylittlesheep Oct 20 '21

not true, Day 9 for example is a huge name in esport hosting and he was attacked all the time when he failed at TI

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u/Sttarrk Oct 20 '21

misogynist, racist and with this TI i learned a big part is anti-vax too

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

A pot calling the kettle black: one guy malding about the DotA community the same way the average DotA enjoyer loses their shit when they get killed by a techies mine.

I dunno why he's complaining: he'd fit right in with the psychopaths that roam the game. Could barely get through 10 minutes of his moaning.

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u/cb_flossin Oct 20 '21

Basically he said dota redditors are: too entitled, went to far with diretide memes/fiasco, too elitist, mean to talent, sexist.

Specifically, he's upset with the response to Frankie botching an interview with the drafter for Spirit.

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u/Qasyefx Oct 20 '21

Yeah if that had been the only thing sure. But she was just bad start to finish

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u/jpatt Oct 20 '21

I'd say that's a bit harsh, but she wasn't good. If dota was short hosts, I think she'd have been fine. But, dota has some great hosts that were at TI and didn't host a main stage panel. (KotLguy / Tsunami)

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u/Sttarrk Oct 20 '21

too elitist

you could read the threads around TI, people really think that theyre superior only because theyre playing dota2, wtf

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21 edited 19d ago

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21 edited 19d ago

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u/Kaldricus Closet EG Fangay Sheever Oct 20 '21

Fuck you, and I'll see you tomorrow

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u/ptrlix Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

The misogyny angle is not an exhaustive explanation because while people criticized Frankie very harshly, criticism of Avo+ seemed even more harsh and common, especially in the first days of the main event. Yet he has shown improvement, and people posted their appreciation of his improvement. Frankie however stayed the same throughout the event. The same thing happened with Ephey in the Animajor as well; people noted her improvement.

Dota community has perhaps too high standards for new talent, but they also make it known when they see improvement and a geniune love of the game, which I didn't see in Frankie.

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u/dracovich Oct 21 '21

Honestly this is on Valve, they keep bringing in new talent with zero dota experience DURING FUCKING TI, if they insist on this why not give them a shot at a major first before dropping someone in that's literally started playing a week ago or whatever?

They've done this a bunch, and it's super sink or swim, every now and then you get a gem like Machine, but normally it just feels like a fuck you to the talent that's actually put time in, like they're being told they're so bad that they'd rather have someone that's never played the game.

As good as redeye was, his first TI was honestly kinda awkward too, he clearly didn't know the game at all. He managed to make up for it with his professionalism and experience hosting, but why wouldn't you have him host a major first if you're so hellbent on them, and if they do well bring them to TI, where they'll be more polished and experienced with the game?

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u/KorallNOTAFISH Oct 20 '21

Dota community has perhaps too high standards for new talent

Is it too high of an expectation when we take into account it is The fucking International we are talking about? Try out new talents in minors maybe majors later. Not at fucking TI...

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u/EbotdZ Oct 20 '21

Fucking thank you. I hate these gaslight campaigns against communities when they have valid complaints. It's the biggest tournament of the year that WE paid 160 million for.

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u/DrouGluiN Snape kills Dumbledore Oct 20 '21

I get it. He is defending his friend. He is defending somebody who he holds in high regard. He raises many valid points (DotA community is flawed, Diretide was a shitshow).

BUT if the interviewer comes off as an arrogant POS then, Richard, you don't simply get to interpret it the most charitable way possible. It's up to Frankie to do a better job, and during this interview, hell during this TI she didn't do a great job. And you are biased as fuck, so there's that.

Eveybody has off nights/seasons/events, its fine. But there's no reason to bury your head in the sand and scream that you love Frankie.

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u/Ptricky17 Oct 20 '21

As far as DoTA is concerned Richard Lewis is also one of the most biased sources you could find outside of a Riot Games office.

He’s quite bitter about that whole Loda incident so compounding his loathing for the DoTA community with his vigorous defense of his friend (Frankie) it’s pretty clear he’s not maintaining any objectivity here.

Then again, who am I to throw stones. I can’t maintain objectivity when it comes to Richard Lewis. He someone manages to be simultaneously pompous and smarmy.

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u/vierolyn Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

He is defending his friend.

Back in the early SC2 days there was a podcast/show with ChanmanV and friends. Richard Lewis was frequent guest (or even a cohoster?).
Later it became known that ChanmanV was using alt accounts to vote brigade reddit posts to push his content to relevant subreddits.
He (and I think his content) thus was banned by reddit (admins not mods).

RLewis defended the behaviour. "Everyone does it" (no proof). "Reddit system is shit, because it requires this!".
He basically defended his friend's wrongdoing and tried to deflect.

He's basically a hypocrite when he talks about people in his circle.
(I want to say he also showed that with the Thorin-Poland-CSGO drama, but don't recall).
He was also involved with LoL subreddit drama (but someone who followed that can probably say more).
He is also the guy who choked Loda on LAN which lead to DreamHack will not be working with Richard Lewis again

I don't trust RLewis in regard to the Dota2 scene nor when he talks about his friends.

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u/VeryIllRedditUsers Oct 21 '21

"Everyone does it" (no proof). "Reddit system is shit, because it requires this!".

Reddit is an astroturfed shithole. Suggesting otherwise is ridiculous.

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u/LittleDinamit Oct 20 '21

No way, Richard Lewis taking another opportunity to exaggerate a small group of toxic individuals in order to slander the general Dota community?

Man, if I didn't know any better, I'd say this guy has a chip on his shoulder.

Like, if he had resentment for the community that called him out for physical assault and being constantly abusive.#Controversy)

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u/PowerfulRice5704 Oct 20 '21

Ah yes, Hell in a Cell. Where an angry moron went looking for a fight in a area he wasn't ment to be in and found someone ready for him.

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u/Monfreregaming Oct 20 '21

Literally, man looked for a fight, got shoved off and suddenly the guy who defended himself is the bad guy.

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u/multiverse72 Oct 20 '21

Do you know how it went down? Kinda sounds like Loda was asking for it, he squared up and threatened a bigger guy backstage? The police were satisfied enough with the story to leave it alone as self defense.

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u/ZaviaGenX Oct 22 '21

You can read more by a witness who testified to the police, https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snvdg2

Basically lewis strangled someone and was the one who initiated contact. It would seem it the strangulation went to the ground. It was a high stress situation all over tho. But in the end of the day, theres a line between verbally and physically attacking someone.

Dreamhack isn't working with lewis anymore, but will work with Loda. They arn't the police but it is indicative of the conclusion.

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u/posterguy20 Oct 20 '21

wasn't RLs fault that loda fucked around and found out

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u/revirn Oct 20 '21

the police literally said it was self defense *in your own link*. "physical assault" when it's legally been classified as something else, lmao. i'm sorry he hurt your feelings.

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u/iannn- Oct 20 '21

Ehhh... I'm a casual follower of Dota2 who watches mostly during TI - and I saw a ton of hate for Frankie that was definitely misogynistic in nature.

Sure, Richard Lewis may have some inherent bias against the Dota community. But I don't think that has much impact on the content and accuracy of his video - he basically read off comments verbatim without changing them at all.

Trying to invalidate legitimate problems with Frankie's treatment by hand-waving it as 'a guy with a chip on his shoulder' is a shitty thing to do.

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u/pp3088 Oct 20 '21

He should read comments about Lyrical and Treant. And avo+, they were as bad as those quoted.

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u/StormShadow743 Oct 20 '21

Blaming it on misogyny is kind of a stretch, but r/Dota2 does have a lot of fucking issues when it comes to talent.

Some people will call for the “uncancellation” of literal sex offenders, then Sumi or Frankie mispronounces a username and Reddit goes apeshit.

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u/godfrey1 Oct 20 '21

mr lewis thinks Silent interview was the only bad thing she has done at the tournament when in reality she was not good all event

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u/gdh8tsfgs Oct 20 '21

Who the fuck cares she screwed up during the Silent interview and she got flak for it - move on. I personally think she did an 'okay' job and I give her credit for doing the event while being pregnant in a covid-spike country. This guy couldn't stop stroking his own dick about how he has eye for talent and he's right about everything.

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u/pnmibra77 Oct 20 '21

I also thought that "she got flak for that interview, its normal" but after seeing the comments in the thread that he showed in the video it changed my view honestly, go look at it for yourself.. its a bunch of incel teenagers saying awful and dumb ass shit because she had a 'bad' interview. You can tell 90% of people here never played or followed any other sport and just grew up 24/7 inside the house by the amount of post complaining about tips and all chatting, complaining about losers interview and asking about the high stakes of a match before they play it, like it isnt the most normal stuff in the real world lmao "oooh she asked about the million dollar draft, she has no idea how to conduct an interview, a real journalist never does that wtfff so much pressure on players" lmao it literally happens in every game of every sport in the world every single day.. cmon now

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u/multiverse72 Oct 20 '21

Yeah like I understand it people say “I wish the media talent had more dota experience” but I never got as irrationally mad watching the TI stream as most of the commenters in those threads. If I didn’t know better I’d say dota players are far more ready and willing babyrage at any new woman being on camera at dota events. People use sheever as the counterexample but I remember the bad things that twitch chat was saying about her 7-8 years ago too.

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u/Katorga8 Oct 21 '21

And, as he said in the video, would this vitriol occur had the average viewer understood basic social skills and nuance? She just states a fact, no malice, no implications, no irony. Just "Oh you didnt think about the draft" as she quickly needs to cut to the game thats just started. They did the draft for the game, he believes in his players to win the game, and thats it. OFCOURSE, anyone in their situation would think about the money in the back of their minds, but surely come game time, its about the game, and winning said game, the fame n glory comes later.

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u/savantdota Oct 20 '21

This guys sounds mad he never made it in the dota community. Only 5 minutes in and he just sounds so mad and it seems like he held this pent-up anger for a long time.

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u/CanneIIa Oct 20 '21

Generalizes the whole community as doxers of CyborgMatt. Brings up gamergate saying Dota players should be on their best behavior on social media bc gamers are thought of as racist and sexist. Figured he’d be grasping at more straws for the rest of the video so I just gave up.

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u/savantdota Oct 20 '21

I hate the idea that we have to respect people because of their gender. It’s such a silly concept when you promote people because of their gender instead of their ability to do a job well. I thought Ephey was charming but I thought Avo and Frankie were meh. Do I think the community went a bit overboard? Maybe but we’re they justified in criticizing? Yes. We paid money for this event.

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u/Spackolos Oct 20 '21

At some point in the past I concluded he just hates Dota. Can't remember what it was, but he never had a nice thing to say whenever it came up.

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u/darkRiki Oct 20 '21

Yeah, dude. He hates IBP, he hates League of legends, he hates starcraft, he hates overwatch, he hates rocket league and he hates dota2 and he actually hates csgo too because obviously when u talk about something negatively or something that is wrong about the game/community that means you hate the game.

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u/Spackolos Oct 21 '21

There is a difference between criticism and pathological hatred.

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u/darkRiki Oct 21 '21

and what is example of his pathological hatred? Are you talking about community reaction or what cause you lost me there

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u/hinkiedidntwantjah Oct 20 '21

really comes off as the kid who "should have been a pro but the highschool team was all politics so i didn't get to play".

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u/Sttarrk Oct 20 '21

i dont think he never tried to make it in dota, he was mainly csgo

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u/timematoom ๋Jabz ma boy! GL sheever! Oct 20 '21

He is mainly "Esport" not just CSGO, he had tried to spice something up here like many years ago and r/dota2 just trashed him the hell out and he got so mad that whenever it's about Dota2 it's never a good thing coming out of him.

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u/Sttarrk Oct 20 '21

its not dota2, that time was about the community too and hes right about how toxic a big part is, trying to use the excuse of "he didnt make it in dota2" is just lame

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u/timematoom ๋Jabz ma boy! GL sheever! Oct 20 '21

He literally made a content backing up Thorin shitting about /r/Dota2 after both failing to get positive reactive from here, what are you smoking about?

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u/TokiToki1500 Oct 20 '21

This guy choked LodA at Dreamhack Winter.......I have no idea why talent wants to speak to him. He's a fucking psychotic manchild, who is also banned from nearly every competitive subreddits, CSGO, LoL and DOTA2.

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u/synfan36 Oct 21 '21

Literally didn't happen. Just because you're big angy that your precious DOTA community got flamed for acting like a bunch of spoiled babies doesn't mean you have to lie about a fully documented incident in which Richard Lewis was found innocent and in fact was acting in self defense.

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u/FreakyDroid Oct 20 '21

Still pains him that he could never break into the Dota scene, after completely missing the point of the "give Diretide" campaign in 2014, which was the funniest thing ever and mostly done for the giggles than trying to strongarm Valve through then US President Obama and carmaker Volvo. I don't know how miserable you have to be to interpret Give Diretide that way. This guy made it like the Dota community made some international crime of epic proportions, to which the community responded by giving him a big middle finger at the time. Few months later in 2015, he got physical with Loda at a Dreamhack event and put his hands around his neck, for which he got reported to the Police.

Now he is whiteknighting for Frankie, makes it sound like she was so cool that we were too dumb to understand her, as if she was making guy talk, but since she is a woman we didn't like it and therefore we are misogynists. Wow, never heard that before, you sure you don't work for Disney Richard? If not, you should apply there.

Frankie's hosting in a nutshell: ask a question, panelist answers the question, she doesn't follow up and/or acknowledge the answer and proceeds to ask something else, as if she had prepared questions regardless of what the answers will be. Not always mind you, but quite frequently. And that's not counting all the times she forced her opinion and talked over others cutting them off aggressively. That's why most people who talked to her were taken aback. That's why the panels with her felt so superficial and without substance. Having worked in the TV/radio industry for over 15 years I easily spot stuff like this, I know exactly what's the host's comfort level on the subject and most importantly: how comfortable are going to be others around her. I saw from a mile away that she is going to have a rough time.

Richard then points out the most obvious example which was the Silent interview and makes that the sticking point as to why the Dota community is bad. Again, complete lack of understanding of what the issue with Frankie was about. These people think that if you're good on the mic and you can entertain one type of crowd, you can just waltz in and do the same with a different crowd. Well lessons learned I guess (or not, depending on their inflated ego) you can't do that in Dota, its got a "bit" of a learning curve. So better get your shit together, we are a tough crowd to please, but once we're pleased you get praised to high heavens. But you gotta put in the work first you entitled brats.

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u/RewardedFool Oct 21 '21

the funniest thing ever

Doxxing cyborgmatt was okay and just a bit of fun?

Diretide went way way way too far.

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u/thisposterisawful Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

I love how there are these people who will construe any criticism against one woman as misogyny

There were other women at TI who were much more well-liked which makes this absurd

Furthermore if you watch the introduction to the video it's obvious he just has an axe he wants to grind

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u/foeffa Oct 20 '21

Richarf Lewis being a dipshit, color me surprised!

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u/awkerbonward Oct 20 '21

Imagine the tantrums this man baby would have if someone who never played csgo was hosting the championship

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u/robclancy Oct 20 '21

Half the talent for csgo are trash at the game what are you on about.

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u/CanneIIa Oct 20 '21

I get your argument but its not hard to host csgo vs dota. My older family members understand whats going on in csgo after a few rounds. Dota at its core is way more complex, theres not much complex things to understand about csgo aside from lineups.

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u/roshag Oct 20 '21

Stunna who never played CS professionally hosted the last CSGO Major in 2019. He done a great job and Richard didn't throw a tantrum.

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u/Ferrari_322 Oct 20 '21

Wasn't Stunna the C9 Coach/Manager at some point in CS ?

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u/disciple31 Oct 20 '21

Stunna has been involved in the cs community for the better part of a decade and for many years prior to 2019, doesn't seem like an apt comparison

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u/Satheee Oct 20 '21

I dont think its always a thing of playing professionally its more a thing of having enough knowledge to go off of. The amount of times franky would ask some random question that had no relevance or anything to lead into was crazy and it made the panel so fucking stale to listen to. Dota is a very complicated/mechanical game and you need more then basic knowledge of it in order to be a good host, panelist, caster, or analyst imo.

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u/roshag Oct 20 '21

To be a good host you don't need to have a good knowledge of Dota, that is what Aui, BSJ and Jenkins and the other Analysts/Experts need. Host's need to keep the flow of conversation going, get the analysts to talk amongst themselves as they are the experts and do whatever the Producer in their ear asked them to do like go to a break/interview etc.

You saw when Aui, Ceb and NoTail were doing Finale Draft that Aui said very little and let the OG boys talk freely, as I assume ever other host would have done the same.

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u/Sttarrk Oct 20 '21

yeah but that doesnt help the narrative so...

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u/VeryIllRedditUsers Oct 20 '21

Sjokz hosted CS events. No tantrums were thrown. It's just Dota that does it.

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u/timematoom ๋Jabz ma boy! GL sheever! Oct 20 '21

She was working for SK Gaming before so of course she would know about CS before hosting CS events.

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u/svipy Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

Sjokz was very good tho

And I am not hating on Frankie. I've liked seeing her in csgo events, I even met her personally during Katowice Major 2019 and she was pretty cool.

But she wasn't up to speed for TI sadly imo.

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u/VeryIllRedditUsers Oct 20 '21

Irrelevant to the terrible point that was being made.

Imagine the tantrums this man baby would have if someone who never played csgo was hosting the championship

This has literally happened multiple times in CS:GO without incident.

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u/VirulentWalrus Oct 20 '21

Don't know how anyone can take this brute seriously.

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u/deanrihpee Oct 21 '21

Probably because to them (community), he attacked something that they hold dearly since WC3 mod, and knowing that Dota is community-driven, I can see why some people got some nerves. While I also wish that this community doesn't get too far but, hey, Dota is probably the only game they played since at least 10 years ago so of course, they have a personal attachment to it and to the extent, the community.

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u/Billy_Nastus Oct 20 '21

Her hosting looked like it may as well have been done by a random person from the street, she had done almost no preparation and had no idea what she was talking about most of the time. But of course this moron makes it about misogyny and entitlement.
Why is he not defending Avo this hard ? Oh right, Avo doesn't have a vagina so there's less of an incentive to white knight for nice guy twitter points.
Frankie got flamed for her performance, not because of what she has between her legs. This guy is pathetic.

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u/jayvil Oct 20 '21

Didn't Day9 and Rich got lambasted on their TI hosting too? Especially Day9 but Rich was able to turn it around halfway through the tournament.

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u/Vaikaris Oct 20 '21

Sense of entitlement my ass. WE fund these 40 million $ events. Yes we're entitled to judge them. When Valve funds it themselves and these casters/talent either get paid by valve or go for free, then we won't.

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u/GreenLemonx3 Oct 20 '21

Don't sip your political bullshit into Dota please. The awnser is a lot simpler. Frankie is mediocre! And a lot of people have no problem with her as Ti host, myself included. But I didn't find her to be amazing and jump on reddit to make a post about it. However she did have some minor issues at the beginning and people just love to complain.

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u/Tino_ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Gib C9 flair back つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Oct 20 '21

However she did have some minor issues at the beginning and people just love to complain.

That's the entire point RL is trying to make. That the community is super shitty because there is absolutely zero leniency for doing anything that they do not like or that is different. The amount of hate she (and frankly avo and some of the other new talent) have gotten over extremely minor shit should be unacceptable. Was all of the talent and segments at TI 11/10 best shit ever? No, certainly not. But was any of it worthy of multiple 500+ reply threads shitting on how badly it was done? Fuck no.

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u/GreenLemonx3 Oct 21 '21

His goal is to portrait a not existing problem in esports, which has been tainting the video game industry in recent years. His narrative is simple, but works very well to create traffic. He claims everyone who dislikes a woman. Does so due to misogony. In his views, all woman cannot be judged by their performance and have to be protected from something. And this fact just shows, how deep his own ideas are rooted inside of his mind.

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u/Tino_ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Gib C9 flair back つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Oct 21 '21
  1. Misogyny is a massive issue in the industry, I don't even know how you can deny that.

  2. If you read even an iota deeper into what it is being said, it's not only about misogyny, it's also about the petulant attitude that the DOTA community can have when literally anything they don't like happens.

The fact that people are solely focusing on the misogyny part and literally nothing else says a whole lot.

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u/nonruminant_ungulate Oct 20 '21

Even if you happen to think that Frankie's first appearance at TI as a whole was a tad of a trainwreck, the outrage and vitriol aimed at her (Sumichu as well) on this subreddit was sickening.

I couldn't even bring myself to respond in any of those threads.

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u/throw23me Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

Can I ask you what you thought about the hate targeted towards Avo+, especially in the context of the loser interviews? I saw far more vitriol aimed at him than at Frankie or Sumi.

To me it doesn't seem like it is an issue of solely misogyny as Lewis is implying. The bigger issue is that the Dota2 community is crotchety, unwelcoming, and generally pretty reactionary. We can do better.

I didn't really like any of the newer talent this TI (including Frankie) but I recognize it takes time for new members of the community to become comfortable and hit their stride. People should be a little more patient.

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u/mozzzarn EternalEnvy Fanboy Oct 20 '21

Or its a simpler explanation.

They were just not good enough be talents at TI.(Avo,Frankie and Sumi)

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u/hinkiedidntwantjah Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

i couldn't watch past 7 minutes (ok i got sucked back in and watched until 24 and gave up). this guy just hates dota? talk about ad hominem attacks. sounds like a kid that is mad someone made fun of his buddy. frankie never apologized for the silent interview so quite frankly i dont give a fuck what he or anyone has to say about it. https://clips.twitch.tv/NaiveCredulousOkapiCorgiDerp-SoPDDfLh7vcrtdGT

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u/posterguy20 Oct 20 '21

frankie never apologized for the silent interview

post is +15

I can't stop laughing, this has to be satire

you guys want her to apologize for an interview LMAO, I don't even think people wanted Tobi and Grant to apologize

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u/hinkiedidntwantjah Oct 20 '21

Tobi and Grant were permanently, and rightly, removed from the scene. this has to be satire

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u/pp3088 Oct 20 '21

Because implying you did not care about you most important task and think only bout money is not a reason to be offended.

Oke.

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u/darkRiki Oct 20 '21

lmao
>video talks about entitlement
>this guy asks for apology for interview that was cut off by production

thanks for proving a point

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u/channel-rhodopsin Oct 20 '21

I really don't see what there is to apologize about, just seems like there was a misunderstanding of the questions or the answers and there was no time to rectify as the game was starting

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u/dacivol Oct 20 '21

Idk seems like making a mountain out of a molehill. I watched this moment live, chuckled about how weird it was and then just paid attention to the game?

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u/hinkiedidntwantjah Oct 20 '21

she doesn't understand the game enough to know he would never say he wasn't thinking about the draft. that's 100% his job. or she isn't good enough at reading the room to see he obviously meant the money.

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u/JimothyC Oct 20 '21

ok and that deserves an apology versus all the insane shit people said in that thread and encouraged people to harass her over social media...because...?

Making a mistake in that interview really shook Spirit so bad they went ahead and won TI.

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u/hinkiedidntwantjah Oct 20 '21

nice whataboutism. people on twitter are horrible in general but also not being paid to do a job. both can be wrong, i just want the one getting paid to be accountable.

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u/JimothyC Oct 20 '21

Again, your deranged standard of what requires apologies aren't held universally. There is nothing apology worthy, you have players on this insane pedestal and need to re-evaluate that. You still can't answer what part of her mistake requires a written apology.

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u/furrygiblets Oct 20 '21

He hates the community, not Dota. he has played since WC3.

You are exactly the person he is talking about.

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u/hinkiedidntwantjah Oct 20 '21

so the points regarding her being bad are wrong? or im just a horrible person so it has to be wrong?

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u/furrygiblets Oct 20 '21

Maybe watch the video first? Or are you purposfully being disingenous?

Maybe you gatekeeping is why others don't learn more about Dota, because they have to deal with people like you, which is the entire point.

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u/primayoga Oct 20 '21

Can you give timestamp, to what's important or not? If I have to waste an hour+ of my time, I definitely prefer to do something else.

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u/hinkiedidntwantjah Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

I'm giving up* on this one lol. i watched until 24 minutes he went off on how he hired moxxi and everyone can fuck off... i'm sitting here like... "uh i like moxxi, and she's super nice and has gotten better and better every time she works." then i realized he's assuming we're all gamer gate ppl who hate women.

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u/primayoga Oct 20 '21

Wait what? Is he real? Moxxi was superb in TI, no one seems has an issue with her. Even Ephey, who was very nervous on ESL One and improve a lot in TI. It's certainly not about women and TI, it's about professionalism and respect toward the game. Thanks man, for letting me know about the theme of the video.

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u/hinkiedidntwantjah Oct 20 '21

it's not gatekeeping when there's only one i didn't appreciate. literally everyone else was good to great. only one caused issues.

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u/pp3088 Oct 20 '21

He tried to strangle Loda in 2015. He is banned from LoL subreddit for being a dick.

Great person.

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u/RewardedFool Oct 21 '21

He tried to strangle Loda in 2015

Loda attacked him, he pushed him away. Police said it was a non incident.

He is banned from LoL subreddit for being a dick

For criticizing Riot (who pay the lol sub mods)

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u/pp3088 Oct 21 '21 edited Oct 21 '21

Here is Swedish news papers who talked to police take on this. Both are in Swedish so you will have to use Google translate.

http://www.svt.se/nyheter/regionalt/jonkoping/journalist-misstankt-for-strypgrepp-pa-e-sporttavlande

Important lines from that article:

According to police spokesman Lasse Johansson joined the two men quarrel which ended with the journalist took a strange hold on the esports pro.

Another more important quote

Call prosecutor then decided words against words and the matter will, it looks like, to be written off , says Lasse Johansson

Another Link http://www.jnytt.se/journalist-misshandlade-kille

Both links are in swedish so you will need to use google translate which doesn't do a great job but passable.

EDIT: https://i.imgur.com/2BOCyBO.png Real Loser is also really aggresive about this case :D

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u/castlepoopenstein Oct 20 '21

...that's it? that's what people are mad about...? lmao

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u/NearTheNar Oct 20 '21

To be fair she blundered a lot of things which could be very easily avoided if she put in just a little bit of preparation. Remember her introducing Insania with "this is his first TI as well" when he was doing panel. He literally played mainstage in the TI9, that's straight up disrespectful. He was the only pro-player who did the entire event, she knew he was an active player so a minimum of research or simply asking him or another panelist before his introduction would avoid that. What happened instead was essentially that Insania got presented to everyone not familiar with Dota as a failed player who's never made it to TI except to do talent work.

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u/castlepoopenstein Oct 20 '21

sounds incredibly minor and you're extrapolating it as something more

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u/mozzzarn EternalEnvy Fanboy Oct 20 '21

Many minor things becomes a major thing.

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u/hinkiedidntwantjah Oct 20 '21

no but it's an embodiment of everything that was wrong. making players look stupid, coming off arrogant when she's the newest person. trying to shame the panel for saying someone was a great pub player when she doesn't understand in dota that's not a bad thing. ect ect

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u/vierolyn Oct 21 '21

Unless I know how much RLewis drank before that video I will not watch it.
Guy is an alcoholic.

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u/ESNCSGO Oct 21 '21

hardly but ok.

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u/-Kavalier Sometimes I lose and it's my fault. Oct 21 '21

Guy talks too much, prime example of just letting people think you're an idiot instead of opening your mouth and confirming it.

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u/lynxzjw Oct 23 '21

Holy hell please people in this thread seek help. And I mean that sincerely.

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u/FlagrantlyChill Oct 20 '21

Good lord everytime I listen to this guy I get the feeling that the CSGO community must be a bunch of arrogant alphas to have accepted someone like this as a community figure. In as many words he says "if you disagree I've worked with the highest levels of broadcast, I'm right so fuck you". Is this why hosts from csgo like Frankie come off as arrogant and blunt? is the whole community like that and so it breeds people like that?

Sir Action slacks is a self deprecating clown and we love him for it. Purges first guide is called welcome to dota you suck. Knowing you suck and are far from the best is in the DNA of every damn dota player. Is it just the opposite for CSGO?

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u/VincentVega999 Oct 20 '21

Please dont give this irrelevant clown another stage. nobody fucking cares what he has to say.

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u/KardelSharpeyes Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

Richard is a click bait whiner, always has been. He has to give some 'hot take' on every issue like this, and he's so biased towards his own community you can't even take him seriously. This video is just someone blindly defending their friend (which I get) even though said friend had a poor performance and the criticism was valid.

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u/Petet_Pettigrew Oct 21 '21 edited Oct 21 '21

Wait wasn’t this guy Who broke the story on racism in league of legends against Rick Fox?

I guess you’d have to be a racist to think reporting an an actual race issue within a community is being a “click bait whiner”…

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u/JadeSerpant Oct 20 '21

While being god awful, Franki refused to read any feedback or criticism and just shifted blame instead. She clearly didn't improve through the tournament and in fact got worse.

She was objectively horrible as a host and should never be invited to any Dota event. Plain and simple.

Like I've said before, this is not whatever game she comes from. Our TI is about the players and the Dota. Talent should stay in the background and fade away when games start, not keep harping about how important they think they are.

This is not your CS:GO major Frankie, this is a $40 tournament that the Dota community funded. So if you're saying you don't value community feedback (she actually said this on twitter), then we -- the people who are paying for you to be there -- tell you to get the fuck off.

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u/VeryIllRedditUsers Oct 21 '21

Franki refused to read any feedback or criticism

Yes, Redditors are equipped to give this feedback.

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u/DicksOutForAlgernon Oct 20 '21

An hour and 23 minutes lmao come ON man

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u/No_Entertainment589 Oct 21 '21

It is so tiresome that any time someone criticizes a female for performing poorly, it is dismissed as sexism or misogyny. Frankie was not great. Has nothing to do with her sex. Day9 was not great either when he hosted TI, and asked a lot of similar dumb questions.

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u/RewardedFool Oct 21 '21

Day9 got utterly fucked by the panel selections (almost every established talent at the event has said that). He had to finish everyone's thoughts because people like Akke don't know how to panel properly. The community did a similar thing to him, the whole panel was blamed on him, when really, of the specialist analysts, only PPD did his job.

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u/watch_lover_2000 Oct 21 '21

The hosts were the worst thing about this TI.

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u/ButteredLoaf9001 Oct 20 '21

Why do people listen to this child lol. So much fake outrage.

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u/Gorthebon Oct 21 '21

We need people who are dota informed to host TI. Can we get AUI_2000 to host next TI? I could see it working better then any Esports host converting to dota on short notice without the knowledge to back it up.

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u/freddiehill28 sheever Oct 20 '21

I got to the point where he said volvo were horrible cars and then stopped watching.

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u/BlAlRlClOlDlE Oct 20 '21

richard lewis... yeah

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u/ESNCSGO Oct 21 '21

you're point is ?

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u/WawawaMan Dendi & Puppey <3 Oct 21 '21

Ah yes, misogyny, the old reliable against ant criticism towards women.

Fuck off.

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u/jpatt Oct 20 '21

Maybe let people who know dota well enough to steer professional nerds through a conversation about dota do the hosting? Sheever is obviously the best, but I don't understand why kotlguy/dakota didn't get to host. He's great at it.

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u/Every_Angle8060 Oct 20 '21

Lots of good points and interesting behind the scenes insight